Discussion Post: Vigilantism

[gen-is-gone.livejournal.com]

So, the show has had quite a few would-be vigilantes over the years (A Real Rain and Hotch's actions in 100 coming most readily to mind) but specifically in regards to Regina in Unknown Subject, there were quite a few comments saying the Emily shouldn't have deceived her, and even some that said Regina should have been allowed to murder her rapist. While I agree that the Piano Man was a despicable person, and his crimes warranted his hatred, I found slightly off-putting the idea that one of our team members would condone revenge murders, especially given the past anti-vigilante themes on the show. So my question for you is this: what stance do you think the show has taken in regards to vigilantes and revenge killers, and do you agree?

Comments

[nwjarvis.livejournal.com]

Speaking of "A Real Rain", Jason Gideon gave us his thoughts on the subject...

Hotch: Ever cross your mind?

Gideon: Taking the law into my own hands?

Hotch: Not the law. Justice.

Gideon: What's this about? The boys in Iowa?

Hotch: Just a question.

Gideon: I guess I think if I ever let my mind go there then the unsubs will be getting into my head instead of me getting into theirs. That wouldn't be a good idea now, would it?

[dhae_knight_1]

Exactly. Most of the unsubs feel that they're justified, one way or another. Feeling justified is not, and should never be, equated with justification.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

People keep saying that they want to see Elle come back as an unsub, but I think it's highly unlikely, compared to Gideon at least. Elle strikes me as someone who primary had two major stressor in her life (or three, if you count the death of her father), when she was raped in college (character sheet), and when the Fisher King shot her inside her own home, probably reminding her of the first (she remembers the Fishier King's fingers being inside her wound). I don't see anything morally wrong with Elle shooting the repeated rapist - one who had already driven one of his victims to suicide - but Elle's decision to shoot him was driven less by what he did, and more by what was happening in her life, that she was shot in her own home after being sent home by her boss, something she threw at Hotch during the period where this happen.

Elle handed in her badge, and then she walked away, I don't think she'll do it again, I don't think she'll hunt down rapists and I think she'll view her time with the BAU, or the last months, as a bad time for her and strive not to be in the same situation again.

Gideon on the other hand, is a Complex-PTSD case, Boston stands out and so does the murder of Sarah in his bed, but I think so much has gotten to him there is no longer a clear incident or incidents for him to get over, it all blends together, that's apparent when he told Hotch why the cabin was important to him, it was that one place* in the world where he could be free from the sounds of pleading victims.

My predictions of Gideon, and I say this as a fan with love and concern, are not good. Without intervention (like, if he runs into Elle or his son or his old mentor or someone he knows who'll latches on), Gideon is going to keep driving until he gets sick and die, have an accident on the road, or until he runs into something horrible. Considering Gideon's luck (Footpath Killer, Frank's interest in him), and that a lot of serial killers roam along highways, the last one is high. He's going to snap, kill himself, or Reid is going to get the call about his old mentor being in a nut house, OR, he's going to become an unsub.

"I guess if I ever let my mind go there..."

...and if at this point in his life, Gideon becomes an unsub, I don't think he'll be like Dexter, he's too emotional. Remember how he broke the rules an saved Billie's life in "What Fresh Hell?" I loved him for that, the girl would have been dead if he haven't burst into the house, gun drawn on the very guilty unsub - but the right/wrong of that action hinges on Gideon's instincts being right, and I believe his instincts are wrecked now (I think the BAU got the wrong dude in "Doubt"). Gideon as an unsub would get some innocent people killed...like the afore-referenced Twilight episode.

Hell, Gideon had actually started hallucinating Sarah before he left, and he said that he kept seeing everyone's death. Mentally unstable.

[nwjarvis.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't say Gideon's actions in "What Fresh Hell" had as much to do with instinct as it did with an understanding of the evidence. The background of that particular incident makes an interesting example of real-world things that found their way into CM...

James Clemente was an FBI Special Agent assigned to the BAU. He had degrees in chemistry and philosophy as well as a JD and worked as a prosecutor before joining the FBI. Clemente tells of the case of the abduction of a 6 year old boy where they were called in 23 hours after the abduction and had to work as fast as they could to try to narrow down the suspect pool. As Clemente puts it, "I had to spend some time convincing the local authorities to kick in the door. When they did, they found him there, and he was alive."

Clemente never met the boy, and the boy "doesn't know me from Adam", but he keeps a picture of the boy reunited with his family in his wallet.

Of course, the episode based on this case cranked up the drama and made the (perceived) star or the show the Hero, but you can see a lot of points that eventually made their way into the show.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

Well, my view of instinct is that it is actually a part of those fuzzy collection of knowledge, or output, that everyone has and doesn't think about. When Gideon was well, he looks at the evidence, he judge that against his vast experience, and he makes the right decision...but starting in episode one, or even before, like, back at Boston, his judgement starts to break down.

The happier outcome of "What Fresh Hell" hinges on Gideon's judgement being correct, that they went to the right house -if it was the wrong house and the break in got on the news, the unsub would have killed Billie. If it was the wrong house, legal fuck up. If whoever is in the house had a gun (and I think it fits that he didn't), that type of kick in door could have ended with someone shot in the chest.

[nwjarvis.livejournal.com]

What you're calling "instinct" I would call "intuition" - a conclusion reached by decision making below the conscious level.

And you seem to be determined that Gideon was the one who believed that it was the right house. Theo whole team had come to that conclusion, not by 'instinct' or 'intuition' but by a careful consideration of the evidence.

Gideon was just the one who couldn't stand waiting anymore and smashed his way in. And you forgot the other possible outcome - they were at the right house, but couldn't find the girl, and the evil-perv-murderer GOES FREE.

That's because, under US law, they had enough cause to believe that the kidnap victim was inside. Remember, they also found tapes which were evidence of other child molestations. But because they broke in without a warrant specifically to save the kidnap victim, they don't have legal access to anything else but the kidnap victim. Once they find her, they can arrest him for kidnapping, secure the house, and get a warrant to search the rest of the house. If they don't find her, they can't use anything else in the house for evidence, so they have to take the handcuffs off and say "sorry we bothered you" and drive away. At most, they could take him in for questioning, but he had already requested a lawyer, so getting anything out of him was unlikely.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

/*leaves*/

Generally you do that after someone had said, "agree to differ" (Which is polite speak for just don't talk to me again), especially when preceded by something like, we've had this argument before...but you made three more comments to me so I added you to my junk mail filter, and the last comment was a tester. It works great.


Rules for Sorting New Messages:
- Move messages to Garbage if sender's name contains "cynical_heathen"

I recommend everyone to make good use of the junkmail filter, unless you are one of those edgy kids who like being cynical or misanthrope just because you think it's cool.