Discussion Post: Vigilantism

[gen-is-gone.livejournal.com]

So, the show has had quite a few would-be vigilantes over the years (A Real Rain and Hotch's actions in 100 coming most readily to mind) but specifically in regards to Regina in Unknown Subject, there were quite a few comments saying the Emily shouldn't have deceived her, and even some that said Regina should have been allowed to murder her rapist. While I agree that the Piano Man was a despicable person, and his crimes warranted his hatred, I found slightly off-putting the idea that one of our team members would condone revenge murders, especially given the past anti-vigilante themes on the show. So my question for you is this: what stance do you think the show has taken in regards to vigilantes and revenge killers, and do you agree?

Comments

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

Personally speaking, I believe in the killing of an unsub less because of what they deserve, but more because of what is necessary, less because of what they already did, but what more they could do. The first we have the leisure of exhausting every legal alternative, the second, if there is no way someone can be kept watch of, and currently we don't have the resources to tail sexual predators that are released even if we believe that they would probably re-offend, then I believe that the people involved in the case have a justification to kill, and on that jury, I would not convict.

I suspect there are many of these cases where No Jury In the World Would Convict.

...actually, the thing about "To Hell And Back" is, they were in Canada, which have very different rules of persecution so Hotch could be wrong on whether the bed-ridden unsub could be convicted - I wouldn't have killed the unsub in that case, but I understand why the veteran did it, and I believe that the veteran would not be convicted for it, he's a veteran who gave a leg for his country, his sister was murdered by a mass murder, No Jury In The World would convict, I wouldn't, even though I wish he haven't done it - the unsub was no longer a threat, in the Canadian system, he'll probably get convicted, he'll get to suffer for the rest of his life, and families of the missing would get to confront him in court.

[nwjarvis.livejournal.com]

gsyh, have you ever seen a movie called "Extremities"? I'd be interested in your take on it.

[dhae_knight_1]

I'm pretty sure Hightower got life in prison. At least Hotch says that he gave his leg for his country and the rest for his sister, while we see him get locked up in a cell, so... Yeah. I think that one's pretty obvious.

And I have very real problems with hurting people for what they *might* do in the future. One of many reasons I feel the laws concerning terrorism was the beginning of a very slippery slope, because how the heck do you convict someone for something they haven't yet done? At what point do you pass the point of no return for the criminals? At what point do you say; "you were going to go through with this," and not have it be merely speculation?

Is it desirable to stop terrorists (or, indeed, any criminals) before they hurt others? Of course it is! But when can you say, with certainty, 'you were going to do this thing', rather than just, 'you were planning to do this thing'?

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

Read please, for what more they would do. Not talking about killing or convicting on suspicions alone, or even fantasies alone (even though fantasies always precede action), but keeping away from society, people who have already started, because once someone is started, it's pretty damn hard for them to stop - cause hey, they already aren't innocent.

I wrote a lot of sick fuckery for the kink meme, but I've never DONE it, there is a difference between fantasy and reality. I can't imagine why I would ever cross that doorway considering the consequences, people getting hurt, my conscience, that reality is never as satisfying as fantasy (and no kill would be like the first, but people will keep trying). But if for some reason I do, cross that doorway, is there any reason in the world at all why I would stop once I've started? To first start, you must justify it to yourself, and once you have, how do you fix that?

Ed Kemper was one of the rare ones who stopped himself, and to do that, he called the police.

[dhae_knight_1]

But... The way I see it, either you're talking about killing someone for what they've already done, or you're talking about killing them for what you think they might do. There... Isn't really anything in between, is there?

No, I don't think very many who do stop themselves. But I do think, with help, most can, eventually, be brought to see what terrible things they've done. And on the basis of that, and even more help, change.

[citjara.livejournal.com]

Hightower certainly was convicted. His sentence may have been lessened for mitigating cirumstances, but I'm certain he was convicted. His actions are complete waste. He tried to protect his mother so much and now she has lost both children? Yay...

Preemptive Punishment certainly doesn't work in our current legal system. It's about what you did, amd that has to proven within a legal framework.

[dhae_knight_1]

Not having any siblings (aside from a 12 year older half-sister I didn't know until I was 18), I'm having trouble telling if that's something an older sibling would do for a younger one, or if it speaks to some underlying sense in the family that he was, somehow, worth less than his sister. So it was okay for him to... well. Waste his life like that to avenge her.

I just... I feel like his mother could (and probably should) have done something to prevent it. That she should have welcomed him home with open arms, rather than send him out onto the streets at night to look for his sister. I mean - the guy just lost a leg, for crying out loud!

It was a very depressing double-ep., all around, I think, and the closing "quote" summed up the feeling of it perfectly. Sometimes the day just... ends. There are no wins, no upsides, and everything seems... empty.

[citjara.livejournal.com]

I'm the youngest child in my family, but I'm not sure it's connected to that. I would rather say that the "point" in revenge is that you stop thinking clearly and forget the consquences of a action. The fact that his mother may now be alone is something that may have only hit him once he was taken into custody.

[nwjarvis.livejournal.com]

About Hightower... I'm not so sure what his eventual disposition will be. Obviously he committed some degree of murder, but I'm not sure how responsible he was at that moment. I don't know the details of Canadian law, but in the US, after searching all that time for his sister, then sitting there at the scene watching all the things going on there, then being told that the dogtags his sister was wearing had been found among the muck --- well, he'd have a really good shot at 'extreme emotional distress.'