Women and the Fans...

[gen-is-gone.livejournal.com]

So, it isn't Monday, but who's up for a little discussion anyway? Namely, about some of the women on our show. Now, I've been following recent ep discussion posts and I'm noticing a few strange similarities between fan reaction to Hotch's new jogging partner,(and now girlfriend) Beth and former co-star Ashley Seaver, played by Rachel Nichols. Now, before you get into the long rants about her physical similarities to JJ or her supposedly bland acting, hear me out: the abject hatred some fans felt toward her was disconcerting to say the least, and so I am upset (though not really surprised) to hear that new character Beth is getting the same treatment.

I'm honestly indifferent towards Beth because there isn't much to her character yet, but character development happens over time. Frankly, I'm tired of the witch hunts Criminal Minds' fanbase goes on every time a new (or not so new) female character gets introduced. I remember the discussion posts leading up to 100 and at least 50% of all of the Haley related comments saying that they hoped she'd die. And then she did, and the few who actually lacked the shame to cheer for a violent murder were subsequently shouted down. Now that it's been two years, people seem to like her more. And let us not forget Ashley and Jordan Todd, neither of whom got the chance to develop as characters because the (mostly female) fans pitched a dozen fits. And to rewind even farther, remember all the Elle fans (where have they gone I wonder...) complaining after her first introduction in 'The Last Word' that Emily was an Ice Bitch and a robot? You certainly won't see them around anymore. I wish that for once criminalxminds would shut up about female characters long enough to get to know them. Much though I adore Reid and all of the male cast, I'm noticing that the double standard we've all been accusing CBS of in regards to their not valuing women is surprisingly (and hypocritically) apparent within our own fanbase. Now, I know Will and Kevin still have quite the hatedom of their own, but they're mostly getting flack from over-the-top shippers, while Haley, Elle, Emily, Jordan, Ashley and Beth were at varying points treated with an appalling amount of suspicion and out right hatred. So, what do you think? Agree? Disagree? Want to rip my throat out? I'm not trying to come off as rude, I would love to better understand why so many people find fault with such seemingly innocuous women.

Comments

[ansera.livejournal.com]

Ah, I see what you mean. But, I'm sure Beth should be there to show Hotch's recovery, but timing wise, I'm not sure how this will pan out. Will we ever see him going back to the old ways with the team? That's the question that I really hope is answered in the affirmative, and seeing how even Will wasn't featured so much, I'm a little (read: a lot) worried that Beth will take the spotlight (as much as you can in a 42-minute long show) away from this team thing. Seeing that fandom's made largely of women, I'm not too surprised that any character not set and well-established gets a negative response - but, then again, even the men get it, although to an admittedly lesser extent.

"I'm not comfortable discussing that in a conversation where the tone is set by people who think it's appropriate to portray a woman they don't like as a serial killer solely because they don't like her."
Well, I actually think that if canon's going to throw freebies like her Dad's death (when did they say that, anyone know, I don't remember it) in there, then they're going to serial-killer her. I think that the serial killer thing isn't nearly so serious. From all the kink memes I've held, I'm pretty sure I've seen pretty much every major character turned into one. The minor characters that we've had so far (Will, Kevin) were all worked into the plot much more... seamlessly I think.

So, while I'm sure there's a serial-killer!Will on the Net somewhere, with how they've had Beth in three eps (is it?) I'm not surprised at all. It's just that they kind of threw her at us, we had a year's break of Will, and Kevin came pretty sporadically. I feel like they want to establish Beth as a character and do it now but it's working against them. (but, yeah, largely-female fandoms have through history never reacted very nicely to women in shows. just look at the clusterfuck that the Supernatural fandom becomes whenever a woman's involved)

[chreesko.livejournal.com]

I'm glad someone else noticed the timing problems! This season has been very well plotted out in terms of what they have planned for the characters, but the execution of those stories hasn't always been great. There's been a real sense of impatience to some of the things they've done, like the storyline about Carolyn. Episode 1: we meet her and find out what she wants. Episode 2: Rossi ponders and angsts. Episode 3: she dies. They could have spaced that over seven or eight episodes, and even if they had given it the exact same amount of screentime, it would have made it a lot more poignant to stick one or two episodes between each of her appearances. Or the quick resolution to the JJ-Reid conflict. I know they're constrained by the procedural format, which means they can't drag things out for too long, but they're taking it to an extreme.

There's been a little bit of that “We have to resolve this right now!” happening with Hotch's arc as well, which is rubbing off on the story with Beth. I don't know why they feel the need to squish the entire story into one episode, but it's definitely been an issue all season. So yeah, I wouldn't be upset with them pacing it a little better.

But you're probably right that it wouldn't have mattered if they had slowed her story down. It was doomed either way, since half the complaints seem to be that it's valid to hate Beth because she hasn't had enough development yet. I'll admit that this is a sore topic for me after being around fandom for a while – especially Supernatural fandom, which was just shameful about it (and still is, I'm sure). It's just that it's always the same in every fandom that focuses on men, over and over and over, and most fans don't want to challenge their assumptions or examine why they react to women characters the way they do. After the 50th time, it's like, really people?

[ansera.livejournal.com]

Oh gosh, don't remind me about the Carolyn debacle - I do wish they'd figure out that we want some semblance of things going on gradually. Especially when it comes to inter-team conflict or issues, like the JJ-Reid one, or even the Return of Emily. I wonder if they plan to have Beth for the next few eps (not that having her around for consecutive eps will help with reception, but the people-in-charge don't seem to realize that just yet) and what the team thought of her.

SPN is, if I think about it, way harsher than CM. Way harsher than any fandom I've seen where women are concerned. I do agree about what you say on how fans don't seem to want to admit that, Yes, we do react differently to women. There's lots more reasons to pick out to be against a new female character, whereas there's much less talk with men. (Still, I think they're spoiling for us to be against women at this rate - they don't seem to be consistent at all, even those like Emily or Garcia have less character development and I'm like, "Seriously, just give them more eps".)

[citjara.livejournal.com]

Oh please! I hope they don't do unsub!Beth. I mean, they don't have to remain a couple, couples split for various reasons, but please no unsub... we don't need more on Hotch's plate right now. Heal him, don't hurt him.

PS: Totally agree about Women judging Women more harshly.

[ansera.livejournal.com]

I doubt they'd do unsub!Beth, after Penelope and having one date-turned-evil, I doubt they'd pull that plotline. Meh, maybe Jack will kick up a fuss about her? Anyone else ever wanted to see Jack meet Henry, haha, like a group team outing thing.