Late because I've no idea what day of the week it is...

[a_blackpanther]

This is the discussion post for Episode 9x05 - "Route 66". Watch out for SPOILERS in the comments.

Comments

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

if y'all don't mind, an entirely different opinion: this episode was completely and utterly out of place (topping "profiling 101" for "the most out of place episode" imho) and such a huge mess, so all it did was make me mad.

in terms of Hotch's characterization and narrative, it made little sense where it was. take this episode and place it in season 6 (or perhaps early season 7 when he was more likely to be struggling with whether or not it was ~okay~ to be happy with Beth)...and I would have had major "this episode is breaking my heart" feels. instead, they basically ret-conned 3-4 years worth of characterization in the name of fan service. Hotch WAS happy, Hotch KNEW he wasn't alone, Hotch DIDN'T NEED Haley's approval of Beth (tho I'll happily use it against Beth haters); he didn't need his (completely idealized) dead ex-wife to tell him that.

(maybe it's just me, but they were broken up for TWO YEARS before her death and while Hotch loved her and cared for her well being, he didn't seem to be IN LOVE with her anymore. their relationship wasn't some epic love story; it was a story of love not always being enough to weather certain hardships. this pretty much made the whole "I wanna stay with you" bits rather laughable and OOC to me.)

Foyet was completely useless and everything that came out of his mouth made me giggle, except the "rip her to shreds" bit which just pissed me off. was that really necessary? we know he's a bad guy, we don't need threats of rape to remind us of that.

and as far as writing goes, dream sequences are the character's subconscious talking to themselves. a far more effective way to bring up some of these issues would have been Hotch having a conversation with Rossi or Reid about how losing someone you love to a serial killer affects you (since they BOTH DID last season). that would have served a PURPOSE, which was entirely absent from this episode (especially considering the interview with Erica saying he's not going to get closure, which lol he seems to have already gotten, but yeah ok sure).

finally, the "she's not you" comment bothers me, not in the actual context (talking about Jack not having his mom), but in the context the fandom appears to be taking it in? I've seen a lot of people thinking he was saying Beth is lesser in some aspect as compared to Haley re: their romantic relationship (esp bc some ppl are mistaking his next line as "she's not enough" when he actually said "and I'm not enough"). but even if it were true that he said "she's not you," it's GOOD that Beth isn't Haley, she shouldn't be and Haley wouldn't want her to be. from 100, we know Haley wanted Hotch and Jack to be happy and if Beth were just like Haley, they'd just be heading down the same unhappy path.

also I would have liked more explanation on the internal bleeding. as someone who works in health care, this made very little sense to me. did an unsub punch him in the gut on the case they'd just returned from? did he work out too hard before laying down with that case file? scar tissue doesn't just ~rip~ open for no goddamn reason. sooooooo that was some complete bs.

on top of all this, the case was pretty messy and JJ just spilling all those graphic details of her sister's suicide was out of place and unnecessary; it felt like they were doing it for spectacle of it. if I had to sit through those details, could I at least get a NAME? that woulda been nice.

it kinda makes me feel insensitive, given how other people are reacting, but this episode was way too much of a mess to give me any kind of feelings at all.

[ruralstar.livejournal.com]

I would say each to their own opinion so no worries.

The only comment I have in response speaks to timing. People don't grieve in a linear fashion. Beth didn't come along right after Hotch's divorce or even Haley's death. There was a time lapse there. And while yes he does know intellectually that he can be happy and that he is not alone, this was more about internal doubt for me. Knowing something and truly believing it are two different things. Also, they got divorced because of his job, not because they didn't love one another. Haley was his first love and a part of him will always love her no matter how happy Beth or anyone else might make him. Lastly, like any parent Hotch will occasionally feel inadequate. Add that he is a single parent in a very demanding job that keeps him away from Jack far more than a regular 9-5, I can totally buy that he is still unsure no matter how well adjusted Jack appears.

Just another way to view the situation.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

oh trust me, I know that grieving/healing isn't a linear thing; I still suffer PTSD symptoms 8 years after stuff happened to me.

my issue is that, within narratives, some things need to be wrapped up within a certain timeframe or else they don't make sense within the context of the show. plotlines can and do expire. if this dream scene was a slab a meat, I would have felt comfortable cooking it up and eating it in season 6 (likely while sobbing uncontrollably). I would have been cautious about consuming it in the first bit of 7, but I probably wouldn't get food poisoning. season 9? it's getting tossed immediately and I'm bleaching the hell outta the entire fridge, wondering who it is I need to yell at for leaving it in there so long.

maybe I would have been okay if it was JUST about feeling inadequate re: Jack (and got rid of Foyet because he'd be even more useless there) and I probably would have understood having a flashback because of a case (tho if there was new Foyet footage, we would probably have gotten a graphic rape scene, given what Foyet said about proving he doesn't stab his victims bc he's impotent). what I can't get behind is Hotch needing Haley to tell him it's okay for him to be happy when he's literally been happy for 2-3 years (since season 7 at the latest) with little to no signs of being guilty about feeling that way.

that's what I mean by saying about the episode being out of place, unnecessary, making very little sense, and ret-conning years of character growth.

(additionally I was confused as to why you brought up them divorcing because of his work; I never said they broke he didn't love her (quite the opposite). I said "their relationship wasn't some epic love story; it was a story of love not always being enough to weather certain hardships." yes, she was his first love, his high school sweetheart, and she will always have a place in his heart, but that doesn't mean he'd feel like he needs her permission after all this time. again, in season 6? oh definitely. when he first meets Beth? I can totally buy that. after he's been happy for 3-4 years and dating Beth for 2 years? no, nope, can't. don't get me wrong, I've always been angry that Hotch's healing has been entirely offscreen, but it's been far too long since it happened for this specific scenario.)

[joospjos.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree completely. It looked promising but ended up feeling really random in terms of "why this now?".

[la-loony.livejournal.com]

For some reason I felt like the whole thing about being happy with Beth wasn't really the issue for Hotch and some sort of lying to himself (since he was dreaming it all). His relationship with Beth was not his problem, his doubts about is parenting were. Which I felt was the point where he got so emotional while talking to Haley but that might just be me.
Idk I guess because the episode started with him feeling bad for falling asleep at work instead of going home to his kid and then 1/2 minutes after saying he'd come home he had to call again because he wouldn't come home after all I felt like that was the actual problem for him. Still don't get why Foyet was there but somehow I enjoyed seeing him not as the total creep and giggle at some of his remarks. It was certainly weird though.
The "I wanna stay with you" line just seemed to me like he wanted to die because he felt so inadequate as a parent and not because of his undying love for Haley or something. Some kind of taking the easy way out instead of dealing with the issue for real once he wakes up in the hospital and all that.