Sweets

[a_blackpanther]

I've been watching this other TV show, Bones. They have a psychologist on the team too. Except they can't seem to make up their minds if he's a therapist for the FBI or a profiler. I know a psychologist can be a profiler, but on CM besides Reid no one has a formal training as a psychologist. My question is how does this work at the FBI? Do their therapists also do consults on cases as profilers? Hotch saw a therapist after Mayhem who wasn't necessarily a profiler, but Rossi also mentions they wrote the questions on the eval.

Also, how long does the behavioural analysis training last in the FBI academy?And what does it entail? Is it focused on the criminal aspect or is it a bit more general?

I'm asking those of you who are studying for this, or who have done more research (and know where to look better than i do)?

edit: a bit of clarification

Comments

[cupcakery.livejournal.com]

I swear, there are two entirely different writing teams on Bones, and Brennan's personality also changes upon which one it is.

[kissmecait17.livejournal.com]

Also I am pretty sure that Booth and Brennan made a deal with Sweets that he could profile with them if they let him write a book about them.He began as their therapist only.

[a_blackpanther]

Yeah, but i'm wondering how this works from the POV of the FBI.

[kissmecait17.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I get annoyed with Brennan. I think her slow evolution to what she is becoming now but for a while I was extremely irritated (like in parts of season 4).

[kissmecait17.livejournal.com]

Good question.I guess because he is an agent at the FBI he has reign to do that kind of thing? I love Criminal Minds and Bones but I have never wondered about this...

[a_blackpanther]

LOL. Yes, a little bit. But i think they've finally settled on her accepting Sweets, but not psychology.

[emploding.livejournal.com]

IRL Profilers are especially rare (for example, there is ONE in Australia) so the term is over-used. I know that doesn't answer your question, but it sort of does indicate the level of training needed, so one would assume a therapist can't just "become" a profiler.

[a_blackpanther]

Yes, i know. So how much sense does it make for Hotch, Emily, Rossi and Morgan to be behavioural analysts? They've been trained at Quantico, and as far as we know they don't have PhD's in psychology.

[cupcakery.livejournal.com]

& as to your actual question, real life FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/hq/td/academy/bsu/bsu.htm) has a clinical psych in the unit, along with other people trained in psychology.

Sweets does on-demand profiling, so I don't think that it's actually through the FBI, but just as a forensic psychology perk. (They just re-aired the episode with Brennan's dad's trial, in which the original offer was made)

[a_blackpanther]

Ooh, interesting link.

Yeah, but he is the expert testifying in that trial. Wouldn't it make sense to have someone from the BAU (or BSU) doing that instead (however it stands in the Bones universe)? It would mean he'd have to have some sort of official training in criminology.

And in the ep with Booth trapped on boat he doesn't talk down the unsub (he doesn't even try), he lets Bones use that suitcase (WTF?).

[a_blackpanther]

Also, how do Emily, Morgan (SWAT bomb guy) and Rossi fit into "Supervisory special agents and veteran police officers with advanced degrees in the behavioral science disciplines of psychology, criminology, sociology, and conflict resolution." (from link)?

[erinya.livejournal.com]

My understanding, gathered here and there from the grumblings of cranky forensic pathologists and other law enforcement folks, is that Bones IN NO WAY represents actual procedure in actual investigations. My guess is that the structure, composition, and protocol of the Criminal Minds team may be a little more true to life, but probably not by much. In TV, drama and convenience always win over accuracy.

[a_blackpanther]

Oh, i imagined so. Not to mention their science seems a bit too far fetched sometimes. And i'm curious as to how it's done in real life.

[flameturnedblue.livejournal.com]

This is something I've often thought about myself (re training - specifically in the BAU).

I'm assuming that most trainees at Quantico take a kind of 'psych 101' course/courses as part of their routine training. But actual profilers (all those in RL, anyway) should technically have some kind of postgraduate training in the area (i.e., basic psych degree and postgrad PhD, or at the very least a masters in clinical or forensic psych). I am most familiar with the British system, but I gather that the quals are pretty much the same across the board.

Even Reid having multiple PhDs in anything but a psych-related field does not make up for his lack of specific qualifications. Let's not even focus on the rest of the team...it makes my brain hurt!

[flameturnedblue.livejournal.com]

Yup, he does, but to practice as a psychologist, you need a postgrad qualification to gain proficiency in a specific area. Psych degrees (have one myself!) are general intros to snippets of all the major themes in psych (developmental, biological, research methods, etc.). Once you have that under your belt, you need to focus on a specific area and specialize...rather like a medical doc getting their basic degree, then choosing to specialize in surgery/cardio/orthopedics, etc.

[cupcakery.livejournal.com]

Yeah, there are a lot of WTF moments in Bones.

Rossi studied criminal justice in college, & hasn't it been said by the writer's that Emily wanted to become a profiler from a younger age? Plus, Strauss's comments on everyone knowing how much Emily wanted to be in the BAU, so I'm assuming that she studied something conducive to the field. Morgan also has a law degree, and SWAT deals with hostage rescue, so, uh, definitely some conflict resolution there.

[miss-pam.livejournal.com]

well, i know that, in bones, sweets' charakter is the fbi-psychologist. he's not even meant to work on cases or anything, he's just there as a psychologist for the agents. but i think it was booth' idea to bring sweets in on some cases to use his psychological training for profiling or interviewing suspects. so technically, sweets is just a psychologist, not a profiler so to speak. but one works pretty well with the other.

[streussal.livejournal.com]

The PhDs they chose for him seem a little random. I get the Math, since I think it was his first PhD. And the Engineering, if it was in urban planning maybe. But why is the last one Chemistry? I guess the theory is that he's read so much that he knows the texts ridiculously well. They must have given him some training in interrogation techniques though.

And then Morgan apparently has a law degree. Which makes me wonder why he became a police officer before joining the FBI.

[flameturnedblue.livejournal.com]

The PhDs they chose for him seem a little random

Completely!

But why is the last one Chemistry?

Just for kicks?? I hear all the kids are doing it these days :P

Thinking more and more about this, I don't think Reid would have handled a clinical psych PhD so well...maybe the other PhDs are a nod to his love of theory and learning reams of facts, whereas clinical psych would involve some theory/research, but focus primarily on clinical placements.

He's definitely had some hands-on training in interrogation (part formal, part under the tutelage of mentors such as Hotch and Gideon?)...

Yeah, hm, the law thing with Hotch and Morgan? A wee bit of a stretch for profilers...I'd love to know what Prentiss studied at Yale - she could be our secret CM psychologist! And did we ever know anything about Gideon's academic background? Hmm.

[streussal.livejournal.com]

But Math and Chemistry involve knowing how to work theories and formulas, more neatly than say, Biology. Or something like Psychology or Sociology. And hey, his mom was a Lit professor. Which is not a cut and dry field. His CM wiki says he thought about doing Classics, but he'd read most of the stuff already. Maybe that was why he didn't do Psych? He'd read so much of it due to his mom? Keeping the personal and educational separate?

Alternatively, he was pretty young. Clinical placements require more life experience than something like Math. The BAU might have made an exception since he's such a ridiculous genius and Gideon had a ~feeling~ about him.

I'm assuming Morgan's undergrad was in Psychology, since you can major in whatever before you do law. And he did more Psychology studies after joining the FBI. Or while working as a cop.

I'm hoping Prentiss studied Psychology.

I think JJ majored in Communications and minored in Psych, but she's not really a profiler, so...

[flameturnedblue.livejournal.com]

He'd read so much of it due to his mom? Keeping the personal and educational separate?

I think you're spot on with that theory.

We should put together some sort of profiler-specific qualifications ranking for the team, see how they all rate! They do all have such a varied jumble of quals, but maybe the thinking is that these all would meld together to give varied viewpoints. I still don't get how having a smattering of psych and possibly some in-house training can make them such proficient profilers. But, a good deal of profiling is educated guesswork - if we look at it that way, they might have as much success with their backgrounds as a bunch of people with PhDs in forensic or clinical psych. Now that would make for some interesting research!

[enmuse.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Sweets is not a profiler and I don't think is actually ever called one. He's a psychologist and has some skills with reading people which would be why he's often called in (or, well, a more "legitimate" reason besides giving the character screen time); Booth goes by gut and general people knowledge, and Bones is clueless in the social realm, lol.

[clear-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

Taken from the FBI website: "The mission of the BAU is to provide behavioral based investigative and operational support by applying case experience, research, and training to complex and time-sensitive crimes, typically involving acts or threats of violence. The program areas addressed include Crimes Against Children, Crimes Against Adults, Communicated Threats, Corruption, and Bombing and Arson Investigations. The BAU receives requests for services from Federal, state, local, and international law enforcement agencies. Response to these requests for BAU assistance are facilitated through the network of field NCAVC coordinators. BAU services are provided during on-site case consultations, telephone conference calls, and/or consultations held at the BAU with case investigators.

BAU assistance to law enforcement agencies is provided through the process of "criminal investigative analysis." Criminal investigative analysis is a process of reviewing crimes from both a behavioral and investigative perspective. It involves reviewing and assessing the facts of a criminal act, interpreting offender behavior, and interaction with the victim, as exhibited during the commission of the crime, or as displayed in the crime scene. BAU staff conduct detailed analyses of crimes for the purpose of providing one or more of the following services: crime analysis, investigative suggestions, profiles of unknown offenders, threat analysis, critical incident analysis, interview strategies, major case management, search warrant assistance, prosecutive and trial strategies, and expert testimony.

In addition to the above services, the BAU staff produced the "Child Abduction Response Plan" to assist investigators faced with these challenging and time-sensitive investigations. Recently, the BAU released "The School Shooter: A Threat Assessment Perspective (pdf) " report to guide school administrators, teachers, parents, and law enforcement in identifying and evaluating threats in our schools. The BAU maintains a reference file for experts in various forensic disciplines such as odontology, anthropology, entomology, or pathology."

In order to get a job doing "Behavioral Analysis" you have to have at least 3 years experience in a private sector and I believe some experience as just a basic "agent" of the FBI. (Don't expect to get into the FBI with a Criminal Justice degree...they prefer psychology, law, accounting, etc.)

On the other hand there are forensic psychologists/psychiatrists who do "profiling" to some extent, usually for the defense or plaintiff, after the suspect has already been arrested, to determine the motives of the suspect and whether or not they were "sane" during the act. From my understanding, forensic psychs usually work for prisons or for the state, or their own private practice. One of the best known Forensic Psychs is Park Dietz. Information about him and his firm (and what all they represent and cover) can be found here: http://www.parkdietzassociates.com/areas-of-expertise/

/end ramble. Sorry!

[miss-pam.livejournal.com]

yup, that's what i'm thinking. while booth goes by gut and bones uses her social awkwardness teamed with her knowledge in anthropology, they need something solid and that's where sweets comes in with his psychological terms. not that i'm complaining, i love sweets, haha. but yeah, no one ever called him a profiler. i think they don't even call him psychologist cos then they would have to admit that he's actually good for something besides being the punchline for everyone's "how old are you again, 15?"-kinda jokes :P

[enmuse.livejournal.com]

I in no way am an expert, just a fan of too many crime dramas, a soc major, and general fangirl, lol. But what I've noticed through the variety of shows I've watched is that an official profiler position is pretty rare (as emthefrootloop noted).

In Numb3rs there was the character Megan Reeves for a couple seasons who had psych training and probably did some training in regards to profiling. Some of the things she did involved profiling but she wasn't (to what I remember) labeled as a profiler, per se.

On the other hand, I remember Mulder from X-Files previously being a profiler (I think for a specialized unit?) before going into the X-Files. It's been a while since I've watched episodes, so I can't remember details.

In Law & Order (I'm best familiar with the original) when they have court cases and psychologists or psychiatrists testifying, they do to an extent put what we might consider profiling into action. They are not profilers, though.

I can't recall if profiling has come up on The Closer... but that's the crime show that seems the most believable to me, lol.

Oh, on NCIS Gibbs has a habit of turning to Ducky for some profiling. (In the first season, Kate was occasionally labeled as a profiler, but I think that was related to training. She was former Secret Service.) Ducky I think has some degree in psych, but he's actually the coroner. lol

Whew, okay, that's all the fictional references I could come up with quickly. =)