Sweets

[a_blackpanther]

I've been watching this other TV show, Bones. They have a psychologist on the team too. Except they can't seem to make up their minds if he's a therapist for the FBI or a profiler. I know a psychologist can be a profiler, but on CM besides Reid no one has a formal training as a psychologist. My question is how does this work at the FBI? Do their therapists also do consults on cases as profilers? Hotch saw a therapist after Mayhem who wasn't necessarily a profiler, but Rossi also mentions they wrote the questions on the eval.

Also, how long does the behavioural analysis training last in the FBI academy?And what does it entail? Is it focused on the criminal aspect or is it a bit more general?

I'm asking those of you who are studying for this, or who have done more research (and know where to look better than i do)?

edit: a bit of clarification

Comments

[cupcakery.livejournal.com]

I swear, there are two entirely different writing teams on Bones, and Brennan's personality also changes upon which one it is.

[kissmecait17.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I get annoyed with Brennan. I think her slow evolution to what she is becoming now but for a while I was extremely irritated (like in parts of season 4).

[a_blackpanther]

LOL. Yes, a little bit. But i think they've finally settled on her accepting Sweets, but not psychology.

[kissmecait17.livejournal.com]

Also I am pretty sure that Booth and Brennan made a deal with Sweets that he could profile with them if they let him write a book about them.He began as their therapist only.

[a_blackpanther]

Yeah, but i'm wondering how this works from the POV of the FBI.

[emploding.livejournal.com]

IRL Profilers are especially rare (for example, there is ONE in Australia) so the term is over-used. I know that doesn't answer your question, but it sort of does indicate the level of training needed, so one would assume a therapist can't just "become" a profiler.

[a_blackpanther]

Yes, i know. So how much sense does it make for Hotch, Emily, Rossi and Morgan to be behavioural analysts? They've been trained at Quantico, and as far as we know they don't have PhD's in psychology.

[cupcakery.livejournal.com]

& as to your actual question, real life FBI (http://www.fbi.gov/hq/td/academy/bsu/bsu.htm) has a clinical psych in the unit, along with other people trained in psychology.

Sweets does on-demand profiling, so I don't think that it's actually through the FBI, but just as a forensic psychology perk. (They just re-aired the episode with Brennan's dad's trial, in which the original offer was made)

[a_blackpanther]

Ooh, interesting link.

Yeah, but he is the expert testifying in that trial. Wouldn't it make sense to have someone from the BAU (or BSU) doing that instead (however it stands in the Bones universe)? It would mean he'd have to have some sort of official training in criminology.

And in the ep with Booth trapped on boat he doesn't talk down the unsub (he doesn't even try), he lets Bones use that suitcase (WTF?).

[a_blackpanther]

Also, how do Emily, Morgan (SWAT bomb guy) and Rossi fit into "Supervisory special agents and veteran police officers with advanced degrees in the behavioral science disciplines of psychology, criminology, sociology, and conflict resolution." (from link)?

[erinya.livejournal.com]

My understanding, gathered here and there from the grumblings of cranky forensic pathologists and other law enforcement folks, is that Bones IN NO WAY represents actual procedure in actual investigations. My guess is that the structure, composition, and protocol of the Criminal Minds team may be a little more true to life, but probably not by much. In TV, drama and convenience always win over accuracy.

[a_blackpanther]

Oh, i imagined so. Not to mention their science seems a bit too far fetched sometimes. And i'm curious as to how it's done in real life.

[iamtheliquorr.livejournal.com]

Thank you. This comment makes me think of my experience watching that ABC Family show Make It or Break It, which is about gymnasts training for the Olympics. As a former gymnast (never elite, though) and a longtime fan of the sport, I think I'm pretty knowledgeable about it, and am safe in saying the show's portrayal of elite gymnastics has vaguely realistic elements but is by no means an accurate reflection of the sport. They seem to pick and choose factual details to incorporate depending on how it serves them dramatically. So basically, what you said.

Everything I know about actual criminal procedure I learned from crime shows, so I can't really speak for their accuracy, but I imagine the same principle is at work here. I'm sure if any RL forensic anthropologists watch Bones, they're probably uttering their equivalent of, "Bitch is going to win with a tucked Yurchenko? Seriously?"

[flameturnedblue.livejournal.com]

This is something I've often thought about myself (re training - specifically in the BAU).

I'm assuming that most trainees at Quantico take a kind of 'psych 101' course/courses as part of their routine training. But actual profilers (all those in RL, anyway) should technically have some kind of postgraduate training in the area (i.e., basic psych degree and postgrad PhD, or at the very least a masters in clinical or forensic psych). I am most familiar with the British system, but I gather that the quals are pretty much the same across the board.

Even Reid having multiple PhDs in anything but a psych-related field does not make up for his lack of specific qualifications. Let's not even focus on the rest of the team...it makes my brain hurt!

[streussal.livejournal.com]

The PhDs they chose for him seem a little random. I get the Math, since I think it was his first PhD. And the Engineering, if it was in urban planning maybe. But why is the last one Chemistry? I guess the theory is that he's read so much that he knows the texts ridiculously well. They must have given him some training in interrogation techniques though.

And then Morgan apparently has a law degree. Which makes me wonder why he became a police officer before joining the FBI.

[miss-pam.livejournal.com]

well, i know that, in bones, sweets' charakter is the fbi-psychologist. he's not even meant to work on cases or anything, he's just there as a psychologist for the agents. but i think it was booth' idea to bring sweets in on some cases to use his psychological training for profiling or interviewing suspects. so technically, sweets is just a psychologist, not a profiler so to speak. but one works pretty well with the other.

[enmuse.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Sweets is not a profiler and I don't think is actually ever called one. He's a psychologist and has some skills with reading people which would be why he's often called in (or, well, a more "legitimate" reason besides giving the character screen time); Booth goes by gut and general people knowledge, and Bones is clueless in the social realm, lol.

[clear-sarcasm.livejournal.com]

Taken from the FBI website: "The mission of the BAU is to provide behavioral based investigative and operational support by applying case experience, research, and training to complex and time-sensitive crimes, typically involving acts or threats of violence. The program areas addressed include Crimes Against Children, Crimes Against Adults, Communicated Threats, Corruption, and Bombing and Arson Investigations. The BAU receives requests for services from Federal, state, local, and international law enforcement agencies. Response to these requests for BAU assistance are facilitated through the network of field NCAVC coordinators. BAU services are provided during on-site case consultations, telephone conference calls, and/or consultations held at the BAU with case investigators.

BAU assistance to law enforcement agencies is provided through the process of "criminal investigative analysis." Criminal investigative analysis is a process of reviewing crimes from both a behavioral and investigative perspective. It involves reviewing and assessing the facts of a criminal act, interpreting offender behavior, and interaction with the victim, as exhibited during the commission of the crime, or as displayed in the crime scene. BAU staff conduct detailed analyses of crimes for the purpose of providing one or more of the following services: crime analysis, investigative suggestions, profiles of unknown offenders, threat analysis, critical incident analysis, interview strategies, major case management, search warrant assistance, prosecutive and trial strategies, and expert testimony.

In addition to the above services, the BAU staff produced the "Child Abduction Response Plan" to assist investigators faced with these challenging and time-sensitive investigations. Recently, the BAU released "The School Shooter: A Threat Assessment Perspective (pdf) " report to guide school administrators, teachers, parents, and law enforcement in identifying and evaluating threats in our schools. The BAU maintains a reference file for experts in various forensic disciplines such as odontology, anthropology, entomology, or pathology."

In order to get a job doing "Behavioral Analysis" you have to have at least 3 years experience in a private sector and I believe some experience as just a basic "agent" of the FBI. (Don't expect to get into the FBI with a Criminal Justice degree...they prefer psychology, law, accounting, etc.)

On the other hand there are forensic psychologists/psychiatrists who do "profiling" to some extent, usually for the defense or plaintiff, after the suspect has already been arrested, to determine the motives of the suspect and whether or not they were "sane" during the act. From my understanding, forensic psychs usually work for prisons or for the state, or their own private practice. One of the best known Forensic Psychs is Park Dietz. Information about him and his firm (and what all they represent and cover) can be found here: http://www.parkdietzassociates.com/areas-of-expertise/

/end ramble. Sorry!

[matociquala.livejournal.com]

This meshes with my understanding. Behavioral analyst =/= forensic psychologist, though BOTH may engage in "profiling."

And I understand there's a pretty serious rivalry between the two groups.

[enmuse.livejournal.com]

I in no way am an expert, just a fan of too many crime dramas, a soc major, and general fangirl, lol. But what I've noticed through the variety of shows I've watched is that an official profiler position is pretty rare (as emthefrootloop noted).

In Numb3rs there was the character Megan Reeves for a couple seasons who had psych training and probably did some training in regards to profiling. Some of the things she did involved profiling but she wasn't (to what I remember) labeled as a profiler, per se.

On the other hand, I remember Mulder from X-Files previously being a profiler (I think for a specialized unit?) before going into the X-Files. It's been a while since I've watched episodes, so I can't remember details.

In Law & Order (I'm best familiar with the original) when they have court cases and psychologists or psychiatrists testifying, they do to an extent put what we might consider profiling into action. They are not profilers, though.

I can't recall if profiling has come up on The Closer... but that's the crime show that seems the most believable to me, lol.

Oh, on NCIS Gibbs has a habit of turning to Ducky for some profiling. (In the first season, Kate was occasionally labeled as a profiler, but I think that was related to training. She was former Secret Service.) Ducky I think has some degree in psych, but he's actually the coroner. lol

Whew, okay, that's all the fictional references I could come up with quickly. =)

[cupcakery.livejournal.com]

Mulder had the highest success rate in violent crimes, working in the BSU. I can't believe I still remember that.

[parisntripfan.livejournal.com]

I was at a talk with the real head of the BSU a few weeks ago. He said that while they may have some psychologists on staff - what they really want are agents who have a number of years in the field. (Reid would never be in the BAU no matter how smart he is with only a year or so in the FBI)

That is because while profilers use some psychology in their job, it really is more about criminal behavior and what could or could not be the reasons behind that behavior. And that will include things beyond psychology. (ie - the person stops killing inside his house because he get married and has to hide that side of himself from his wife) And much of that knowledge only comes form years and years spent in the field, talking and reading interviews with many, many, many criminals and other things.

[a_blackpanther]

AAH. Well that explains quite a bit.

So, did this BSU person mention what courses their profilers take in Quantico to get into the BSU (if they didn't do psych beforehand)

[nebula99.livejournal.com]

Someone else has already posted that Reid would need far more than a psychology degree to actually practise as a psychologist. Forensic psychology is a different field, but in the UK, the majority of forensic psychologists work within the prison system with offenders AFAIK.

There is at least one forensic psych course in the UK which does not lead to BPS accreditation, but is aimed at people already working in law enforcement - I'm guessing that the training the FBI offers would be something similar.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

I am going into a master's program in behavioral analysis in the fall with the intent on someday working with victims or law enforcement but it'll be decades before i can even CONSIDER a career path into the BSU.