An attempt at conversation

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

In the last episode comment posting in this community, some folks lamented the general atmosphere of crickets here, and then a_blackpanther suggested that some members might want to discuss more general themes related to the show, sooooooo... yeah, I decided to do a thing. And since things can be daunting for some, I decided to fill the thing with fun little checkboxes because who doesn't like checking things off, amirite?

Below is a poll with lots of questions that hopefully encourage a little back and forth. Feel free to expand on your opinions in the comments section, okay?


[Poll #1960090]

As I said above, please feel free to expand on your answers in the comments!

*EDIT*: LOL! I'm impressed that so many of you think that this show needs more dinosaurs XD

Comments

[dunderklumpen.livejournal.com]

I guess I'll stick to the show until the bitter end. After the last two seasons, which were quite frankly pretty awful, my expectations were low. I expected it to continue like that but this season I actually enjoy. Of course there still are some hits and miss but all in all I like it. And we also got some interesting character plots. Yes, they're all over the top - but I get that the writers try to match the background stories to the cases. So they have to be intense.

The one thing that really became worse the further we came along is how much of the torture they show. IMO the show was better when they gave us hints and our imagine had to do the rest. Now it seems like they think showing more violence and brutality in every detal makes the story better. And that's wrong.

[wagrobanite.livejournal.com]

What drives me absolutely batshit crazy is showing the unsub in the first 5 minutes! I watch earlier seasons on A&E and many times the unsub isn't shown until 45 minutes into the show. I miss this.

I agree with dunderklumpen in that they're showing way more violence than they use to and I'm not a fan

[rebak1tten.livejournal.com]

Look check boxes! My favorite seasons were 4 and 5 so watching is mostly just a habit now. And as others have said it really does seem much gorier than before.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

I started watching the show way back in season 1. I used to be really obsessed with criminal profiling. I have all the books by John Douglas and a few of the books by other people. So I started watching for the concept. But I quickly fell in love with the characters. I feel the show is less about actual profiling now, but I still love the characters and will stick around until it goes away. Even if Hotch leaves. Because its about the whole show for me, not a single part or character.

My two favorite are Hotch and Prentiss. Rossi is a close third. But I love everyone. My least favorite is probably Reid, who I know is everyone else's favorite. But I don't hate him, I just don't love him quite as much. I love the team dynamic. I love that most of the episodes focus on cases, but I also love the few team member-centric storylines we get.

While I think earlier seasons were better, this season has been really solid for me. Better than last season, certainly (even if Mark Hamill as the Replicator totally made the final awesome). Basically, CM is awesome. Not quite as awesome as earlier, but still awesome.

I like Alex. But then again, I liked Seaver. But Alex has really fit in with the team to me. I'll always miss Prentiss, but Alex doesn't feel like a replacement. I like having an older female character, I like her lingistic angle, and I find her intriguing.

The violence doesn't bother me so much. But then again, I'm in the criminal justice field and have always had a thick stomach. It doesn't feel exploitive to me because the stories are about the team catching people who do horrible things. It isn't about the bad guys and what they do isn't justified. And it isn't filmed in a sexual way the way some shows do. Its just showing what the serial killers/etc. do. Murder is gruesome.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

That doesn't bug me so much. Its nice to be surprised, but its also nice, IMHO, to watch the team struggle to figure out what we already know. Its a different watching experience, but no less enjoyable for me personally.

[full-metal-ox.livejournal.com]

Bear in mind, also, that not all mystery plots can be summarized as Whodunit; there's also Whattheydun, Whytheydunit, Didtheyevendoitatall (see "Riding the Lightning", for example), and Whattheygonnado (to name a few.) I was extremely impressed with "Final Shot"'s fresh twist on the unreliable POV angle. for example.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, totally agreed. And Criminal Minds is especially good, given its angle, at the whytheydunit angle, which is one of the things i find most interesting.

[wagrobanite.livejournal.com]

John Douglas rocks ;)

I don't mind the gore either (you should see my bookshelves... four forensic anthropology bone manuals...) but it just gets to be too much all the time...

See now if Hotch left, I'd be done...I started watching for him (huge Dharma and Greg fan) but I do love the team.

I wish they would incorporate more history with not so famous killers (which by the way have you read Psycho USA: Famous American Killers You Never Heard Of by Harold Schechter?)

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

That one's on my bookshelf too. I too wish they'd incorporate some of the less well known killers, but I guess the general audience wouldn't know what they were talking about.

The only gore that gets me is anything involving eyes. If it involves eyes, I'm out.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

It's so unbelievable. This team profiles the bad guy and gets them in sometimes one single day. Most profilers spend weeks, months, and YEARS trying to finalize a profile. Also, the characters are so traumatized, I mean honestly it's boring and insulting to my intelligence. It's got nothing new to offer when there are much more intelligent crime dramas out there.

[szarabasjka.livejournal.com]

I'm still pissed with the fact that you guys hate Elle...

I haven't seen much of this season, my work schedule decided so... is it that bad? really?

[szarabasjka.livejournal.com]

And there's no SWAT or police officers anymore, is all done my them.
I used to love the details like the gloves, or the surgical shoes, and the fact that they were hardly ever involved in the violence itself, since they're profilers they're not like real active agents or anything, right?

[liliaeth]

I think my biggest problem with the show the past few years really has been that there's too much focus on Reid and Hotch. I don't even mind Hotch so much, but it's like where Morgan or JJ might get one ep a season with a bit more focus, Reid and Hotch get half a season worth of storylines and by now I'm just bored with that. I just wish they'd push them aside for a season or two and focus on the other characters for a change.

[synviver.livejournal.com]

I totally admit that I haven't seen any of this season yet, owing to a general lack of interest in television as a whole over the last eight months or so.

That said, I absolutely adore the show, though it does tend to get tiresome seeing how frequently they throw out sexual sadism as the primary motivation of the unsub (mostly because there tends to be an implied "all sexual sadists are completely conkers" vibe that exasperates me to no end, because no). Mostly I adore Garcia and Reid. They're so adorkable. x3

[aim2misbhave.livejournal.com]

I really, really liked the first few seasons when they were trying to figure out who it was - and sometimes getting it completely wrong, like remember that one where the arsonist turned out to be a girl and religiously motivated and they didn't expect that at all in the beginning?

Also, the whole showing the unsubs tormenting their victims.... no thank you. If there's anything that makes me flip away from the show onto something else, it's that.

(Although, as a SoCal resident, no, no set designers can make it look like any state in the union - LA has blue street signs and giant red or orange buses everywhere, and approximately six streets that don't contain palm trees somewhere, and there's never any hiding that gorgeous, gorgeous sunlight of ours ;-)

[beatrice_otter]

I started watching somewhere in the first couple of seasons because someone said it was a procedural/cop show that featured women and characters of color.

[kuriadalmatia.livejournal.com]

Elle will always hold a special place in my heart.

If only they would give her the shout-out that they seemed to be obliged to do for Gideon...

[kuriadalmatia.livejournal.com]

I'm still watching even though the return of JJ has tilted more to showcasing her character and how utterly amazing she is (they lost me with the spinning heel kick). I don't think the show runners and writers necessarily trying to bomb out the show, rather they (specifically Messer) misinterpreted the fans' reaction to AJ Cook and Paget Brewster being fired. This retooling of the character into JJ 2.0 has really hurt the show. Now, I'm all for character growth and I do believe characters should evolve. Yes, events should shape a character's development, but the whole "200" storyline was a debacle for so many reasons.

Dear CM Writers: Brewster left. Get over it. Why did you feel the need to remake JJ into Prentiss? Because the actress wanted to kick ass and wanted her character to be "more like herself" in that she's snarky? Yawn. A "strong character" means the person now how has to be physical? Why?

Honestly, they lost me with JJ's character the moment she did that spinning heel kick.

I'm saddened that Blake has been "put in the corner" because she has so much potential and that Garcia's computer skills a more of a crutch than ever. Oh, and how Garcia waffles from being confident and secure to wibbling to Morgan about her man troubles.

Finally, well... for the love of the show, I wish they would stop killing off love interests. Gideon, Hotch, and Reid. Rossi twice. Enough.

[spring-la.livejournal.com]

I got into CM because a friend of mine would watch it in the living room and it was unavoidable. One evening I ended up saying goodnight and then standing in my bedroom doorway watching an entire episode (the one someone mentioned earlier where the religiously motivated girl was an arsonist). After that I figured I should probably start watching it on my own. So I marathoned what was out and have been watching it ever since.

I think the show could do without revealing the unsub to the audience so early so much. I don't mind if they do it every now and again and use that in some interesting way like confusing us or making us really wonder what the motivations were, or something like that. But I feel like it's overdone.

One of the things I used to really enjoy was the green screen walk throughs. I don't know why, but the one that sticks in my head is when Reid was talking about a famous serial killer whose name I am completely blanking on at the moment who had a girl in his trunk when he got pulled over but was so together that the cop didn't notice anything and let him go, and Reid is sitting in the passenger seat explaining it. I got really excited when they did it last season (I think it was) with the sniper who shot a bunch of people during lunch. I was hoping they were bringing it back, but I don't think they've done it since then.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

OMG, this comment made cackle ;)

*thumbs up*

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I agree with you - I don't mind knowing the UnSub up front. I just care if the story or the motivations are interesting. There's something to be said for a game of cat and mouse, especially if there's a real threat that the team won't figure it out (when was the last time THAT happened?).

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Checkboxes just for YOU, blossom!

I was surprised that the overwhelming thing that people chose to do without was the gore factor. I thought it was just me and it was because I'm becoming a cranky old broad.

[laceymcbain.livejournal.com]

I stopped watching it a couple of seasons ago. I had watched the first three seasons or so together, and really enjoyed the show, and then became a regular watcher. I stopped watching because of a combination of things - when Prentiss and JJ left the show it just wasn't the same show for me. The team dynamic was gone, and the show was so male dominated. They also seemed to start really pushing the envelope on the kinds of horrible things that happened to their victims (largely women), and with no female field agents (Garcia in her tech office didn't really count), it felt as if the only female characters I saw were being murdered, tortured, mutilated, victimized, etc. I realized I didn't enjoy the show anymore. It wasn't entertaining, it was horrifying, and I haven't really considered going back. I did recently see a few episodes at the end of S8 (?) where they lose Strauss, and those seemed less graphic, plus the one that revisited Derek's abuse issues was a strong episode, BUT I don't think I can go back to watching it, even with a more balanced cast dynamic. It's the violence/graphic nature that reminds me too much of this happens in real life, and that's not what I want to see for entertainment.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Ugh... I'm with you about the eyeballs... *shivers*

I had a bone to pick with the inclusion of Paul Bernardo/Karla Holmolka in the last episode as an example of couple killers. Although a relatively famous Canadian case, Reid claimed that the couple were responsible for over 20 rapes and murders which is, well, WRONG (they were responsible for 3 murders together - Holmolka was never implicated in Bernardo's Scarborough Rapist crimes). I think that the writers could reference lesser known cases if they wanted to, considering that they'll juggle the facts to suit the story that they are writing.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

I will always miss Prentiss, although I am slowly warming to Blake.

I have to respectfully disagree about the inclusion of more violence in the show and that it "isn't filmed in a sexual way". Depiction of male predation on female victims will always have sexual overtones to viewers even if that isn't the point of the scene. The show isn't going to film a graphic rape scene, but that doesn't mean that the viewer isn't picking up on that act when a victim gets tied up and the UnSub suggests the outcome via dialog or non-consensual physical contact instead. Look at the episode where J.J. was kidnapped along with Cruz - they were both beaten and tortured, but the moment that the UnSub brushed J.J.'s hip suggestively, Cruz broke and gave in. The implication is clear to viewers, not to mention that it sends out a terrible message about how rape is quite possibly worse than death. Considering how often this show has lauded survival and saving victims, it seems like a mixed message and one that rape survivors probably wouldn't appreciate.

Sure, murder is gruesome, but this is entertainment. And there's something disturbing (or there should be) about witnessing human torment to pass the time. While we all tune in voluntarily knowing what the subject matter is about, I think that these stories could be told just as well without the attempt at gritty crime realism.