An attempt at conversation

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

In the last episode comment posting in this community, some folks lamented the general atmosphere of crickets here, and then a_blackpanther suggested that some members might want to discuss more general themes related to the show, sooooooo... yeah, I decided to do a thing. And since things can be daunting for some, I decided to fill the thing with fun little checkboxes because who doesn't like checking things off, amirite?

Below is a poll with lots of questions that hopefully encourage a little back and forth. Feel free to expand on your opinions in the comments section, okay?


[Poll #1960090]

As I said above, please feel free to expand on your answers in the comments!

*EDIT*: LOL! I'm impressed that so many of you think that this show needs more dinosaurs XD

Comments

[dunderklumpen.livejournal.com]

I guess I'll stick to the show until the bitter end. After the last two seasons, which were quite frankly pretty awful, my expectations were low. I expected it to continue like that but this season I actually enjoy. Of course there still are some hits and miss but all in all I like it. And we also got some interesting character plots. Yes, they're all over the top - but I get that the writers try to match the background stories to the cases. So they have to be intense.

The one thing that really became worse the further we came along is how much of the torture they show. IMO the show was better when they gave us hints and our imagine had to do the rest. Now it seems like they think showing more violence and brutality in every detal makes the story better. And that's wrong.

[wagrobanite.livejournal.com]

What drives me absolutely batshit crazy is showing the unsub in the first 5 minutes! I watch earlier seasons on A&E and many times the unsub isn't shown until 45 minutes into the show. I miss this.

I agree with dunderklumpen in that they're showing way more violence than they use to and I'm not a fan

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

That doesn't bug me so much. Its nice to be surprised, but its also nice, IMHO, to watch the team struggle to figure out what we already know. Its a different watching experience, but no less enjoyable for me personally.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

I partially agree with this. while I vastly prefer not knowing who the unsub is until the end, there are some times where you do kinda need to see the unsub up front to better understand their motivations. in previous seasons, this worked well (true night, minimal loss, soul mates, etc) and they used it sparingly, but as it is presently...it takes a lot of the mystery out of it ("lemme monologue at you for a second") or is just over the top ridiculous (PRAYING MANTIS?????). can they still get it right? of course! but they get it wrong so often these days that when we do meet the unsub right off the bat, I prepare myself to be disappointed.

[mycha-kk.livejournal.com]

i'm so with you! I hate when we get tos see the unsub from the beginning. It's more interesting to try and predict the puzzle/mystery with who and why did/does it. I like team work, but I prefer the cases being revealed with small doses.

[rebak1tten.livejournal.com]

Look check boxes! My favorite seasons were 4 and 5 so watching is mostly just a habit now. And as others have said it really does seem much gorier than before.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Checkboxes just for YOU, blossom!

I was surprised that the overwhelming thing that people chose to do without was the gore factor. I thought it was just me and it was because I'm becoming a cranky old broad.

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

I started watching the show way back in season 1. I used to be really obsessed with criminal profiling. I have all the books by John Douglas and a few of the books by other people. So I started watching for the concept. But I quickly fell in love with the characters. I feel the show is less about actual profiling now, but I still love the characters and will stick around until it goes away. Even if Hotch leaves. Because its about the whole show for me, not a single part or character.

My two favorite are Hotch and Prentiss. Rossi is a close third. But I love everyone. My least favorite is probably Reid, who I know is everyone else's favorite. But I don't hate him, I just don't love him quite as much. I love the team dynamic. I love that most of the episodes focus on cases, but I also love the few team member-centric storylines we get.

While I think earlier seasons were better, this season has been really solid for me. Better than last season, certainly (even if Mark Hamill as the Replicator totally made the final awesome). Basically, CM is awesome. Not quite as awesome as earlier, but still awesome.

I like Alex. But then again, I liked Seaver. But Alex has really fit in with the team to me. I'll always miss Prentiss, but Alex doesn't feel like a replacement. I like having an older female character, I like her lingistic angle, and I find her intriguing.

The violence doesn't bother me so much. But then again, I'm in the criminal justice field and have always had a thick stomach. It doesn't feel exploitive to me because the stories are about the team catching people who do horrible things. It isn't about the bad guys and what they do isn't justified. And it isn't filmed in a sexual way the way some shows do. Its just showing what the serial killers/etc. do. Murder is gruesome.

[wagrobanite.livejournal.com]

John Douglas rocks ;)

I don't mind the gore either (you should see my bookshelves... four forensic anthropology bone manuals...) but it just gets to be too much all the time...

See now if Hotch left, I'd be done...I started watching for him (huge Dharma and Greg fan) but I do love the team.

I wish they would incorporate more history with not so famous killers (which by the way have you read Psycho USA: Famous American Killers You Never Heard Of by Harold Schechter?)

[liliaeth]

I think my biggest problem with the show the past few years really has been that there's too much focus on Reid and Hotch. I don't even mind Hotch so much, but it's like where Morgan or JJ might get one ep a season with a bit more focus, Reid and Hotch get half a season worth of storylines and by now I'm just bored with that. I just wish they'd push them aside for a season or two and focus on the other characters for a change.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

It's so unbelievable. This team profiles the bad guy and gets them in sometimes one single day. Most profilers spend weeks, months, and YEARS trying to finalize a profile. Also, the characters are so traumatized, I mean honestly it's boring and insulting to my intelligence. It's got nothing new to offer when there are much more intelligent crime dramas out there.

[szarabasjka.livejournal.com]

And there's no SWAT or police officers anymore, is all done my them.
I used to love the details like the gloves, or the surgical shoes, and the fact that they were hardly ever involved in the violence itself, since they're profilers they're not like real active agents or anything, right?

[szarabasjka.livejournal.com]

I'm still pissed with the fact that you guys hate Elle...

I haven't seen much of this season, my work schedule decided so... is it that bad? really?

[kuriadalmatia.livejournal.com]

Elle will always hold a special place in my heart.

If only they would give her the shout-out that they seemed to be obliged to do for Gideon...

[synviver.livejournal.com]

I totally admit that I haven't seen any of this season yet, owing to a general lack of interest in television as a whole over the last eight months or so.

That said, I absolutely adore the show, though it does tend to get tiresome seeing how frequently they throw out sexual sadism as the primary motivation of the unsub (mostly because there tends to be an implied "all sexual sadists are completely conkers" vibe that exasperates me to no end, because no). Mostly I adore Garcia and Reid. They're so adorkable. x3

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

I'm with you on the 'sexual-sadism-of-the-week' thing. This season has been an improvement over the last two - no question - but I'm convinced that this show's best days (and best storylines) are behind them. When I think about how I was riveted in seasons 4 & 5...

I love Garcia and Reid as well but I think that many, many fans do so that's not really news ;)

[aim2misbhave.livejournal.com]

I really, really liked the first few seasons when they were trying to figure out who it was - and sometimes getting it completely wrong, like remember that one where the arsonist turned out to be a girl and religiously motivated and they didn't expect that at all in the beginning?

Also, the whole showing the unsubs tormenting their victims.... no thank you. If there's anything that makes me flip away from the show onto something else, it's that.

(Although, as a SoCal resident, no, no set designers can make it look like any state in the union - LA has blue street signs and giant red or orange buses everywhere, and approximately six streets that don't contain palm trees somewhere, and there's never any hiding that gorgeous, gorgeous sunlight of ours ;-)

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

There was this fantastic short as an extra on one of the DVD sets about how the set designers do all of these crazy things to environments in order to convince the viewer that they are Baltimore or Tampa or Chicago. The best one were these custom made... ummm, I don't know what to call them... tree coats maybe? Basically, they slapped them around the bases of palm trees and it looked like fir tree bark instead. It was seriously weird and I thought "who the hell thinks THAT up?". Set designers, that's who ;)

[beatrice_otter]

I started watching somewhere in the first couple of seasons because someone said it was a procedural/cop show that featured women and characters of color.

[kuriadalmatia.livejournal.com]

I'm still watching even though the return of JJ has tilted more to showcasing her character and how utterly amazing she is (they lost me with the spinning heel kick). I don't think the show runners and writers necessarily trying to bomb out the show, rather they (specifically Messer) misinterpreted the fans' reaction to AJ Cook and Paget Brewster being fired. This retooling of the character into JJ 2.0 has really hurt the show. Now, I'm all for character growth and I do believe characters should evolve. Yes, events should shape a character's development, but the whole "200" storyline was a debacle for so many reasons.

Dear CM Writers: Brewster left. Get over it. Why did you feel the need to remake JJ into Prentiss? Because the actress wanted to kick ass and wanted her character to be "more like herself" in that she's snarky? Yawn. A "strong character" means the person now how has to be physical? Why?

Honestly, they lost me with JJ's character the moment she did that spinning heel kick.

I'm saddened that Blake has been "put in the corner" because she has so much potential and that Garcia's computer skills a more of a crutch than ever. Oh, and how Garcia waffles from being confident and secure to wibbling to Morgan about her man troubles.

Finally, well... for the love of the show, I wish they would stop killing off love interests. Gideon, Hotch, and Reid. Rossi twice. Enough.

[spring-la.livejournal.com]

I got into CM because a friend of mine would watch it in the living room and it was unavoidable. One evening I ended up saying goodnight and then standing in my bedroom doorway watching an entire episode (the one someone mentioned earlier where the religiously motivated girl was an arsonist). After that I figured I should probably start watching it on my own. So I marathoned what was out and have been watching it ever since.

I think the show could do without revealing the unsub to the audience so early so much. I don't mind if they do it every now and again and use that in some interesting way like confusing us or making us really wonder what the motivations were, or something like that. But I feel like it's overdone.

One of the things I used to really enjoy was the green screen walk throughs. I don't know why, but the one that sticks in my head is when Reid was talking about a famous serial killer whose name I am completely blanking on at the moment who had a girl in his trunk when he got pulled over but was so together that the cop didn't notice anything and let him go, and Reid is sitting in the passenger seat explaining it. I got really excited when they did it last season (I think it was) with the sniper who shot a bunch of people during lunch. I was hoping they were bringing it back, but I don't think they've done it since then.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

YES, I looooooved the green screen and I was super excited during that sniper episode as well, esp bc it was 9x03 and I had hope that MAYBE they'd decided to bring it back on a regular basis. alas, no such luck.

[laceymcbain.livejournal.com]

I stopped watching it a couple of seasons ago. I had watched the first three seasons or so together, and really enjoyed the show, and then became a regular watcher. I stopped watching because of a combination of things - when Prentiss and JJ left the show it just wasn't the same show for me. The team dynamic was gone, and the show was so male dominated. They also seemed to start really pushing the envelope on the kinds of horrible things that happened to their victims (largely women), and with no female field agents (Garcia in her tech office didn't really count), it felt as if the only female characters I saw were being murdered, tortured, mutilated, victimized, etc. I realized I didn't enjoy the show anymore. It wasn't entertaining, it was horrifying, and I haven't really considered going back. I did recently see a few episodes at the end of S8 (?) where they lose Strauss, and those seemed less graphic, plus the one that revisited Derek's abuse issues was a strong episode, BUT I don't think I can go back to watching it, even with a more balanced cast dynamic. It's the violence/graphic nature that reminds me too much of this happens in real life, and that's not what I want to see for entertainment.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

If comments here are any indication, you are not alone in your distaste for the increased violence.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

one thing I haven't seen discussed here (I wrote about it on my tumblr, which got reblogged enough to know I'm not alone) is the way really heavy episodes have a tendency to be brushed aside in order to show the ~team as a family~ narrative (aka pasta parties) in later seasons. example: in 200, JJ gets tortured for over 24 hrs, is made to relive losing her pregnancy, and found out that everyone on her iraq!team was betraying her in various ways...and we immediately go out to a bar to drink and SMILE! no trauma here folks! two weeks is totes enough time to sort myself out! this is made worse by the fact that Messer has literally said this storyline is over, the chapter's closed, so it's not like I can hope for a realistic depiction eventually. I get that they had Paget and wanted to do something happy with her, but it was so out of place and disrespectful of what JJ went through.

(also holy shit, the plot holes in that episode were big enough to fly the BAU jet through)

I don't mind the characters having traumatic pasts (thus far, they've made sense/been in character) and I don't mind them going through traumatic things (minus all the lady love interests dying omg stop), but please, please, PLEASE follow through! preferably within a season or two (I'm looking at you, Route 66...it's so out of place that I've divorced it from its shitty case and legit headcanon'd the hospital stuff all the way back to s6), tho I'll settle for slightly drawn out if done correctly (see: the profiler, profiled/foundation/restoration arc; a long time coming, but at least it made sense). follow through is important with keeping characters 3D, even the little things (hi, why has no one mentioned Morgan's specialities in bombs, obsessive behavior, or his undercover work in SEASONS), but it's so much more important when the thing you've referenced or created is traumatic. because even if the number of people who've been through [insert trauma here] is low, it's extremely disrespectful to them and those who have suffered similar situations to just throw it out the window in favor of a happy scene.

tbh, I couldn't pick between whether or not I want the show to have another season. despite being displeased by a lot of elements since s6, there's still a tiny (quickly dying) hope in me that we'll see more episodes like final shot and gabby. problem is that after all these years, they're still so few and far between and sometimes followed by really offensive episodes (I almost stopped watching after 8x21; I couldn't believe that after such a good episode dealing with sexual abuse (restoration), they decided to follow it up with a case based on false rape accusations)...that I certainty don't think the writers DESERVE another year. buuuut I know that won't stop me from watching if it does go on. pretty sure mgg, gibby, and/or shemar want to leave after 10 (p sure all their contracts are up after that), so maybe that'll be the thing that finally allows me to step away.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Messer said something pretty boneheaded about these 'team scenes' in a recent interview. She said that the team members needed the level of personal trauma in their lives because having them be 'normal' would look ridiculous juxtaposed against the cases they work. BUT, she didn't want the show to be a complete downer, hence the pasta-and-drinks scenes (ALWAYS at the end of an episode because 'they aren't the focus of the show'). And I was all "REALLY??? That just sounds like you are tired of hearing criticism so you took us all out for ice cream instead. Lazy producer! No biscuit!". I sorta got all rageful that she considered her audience to be so shallow that a handful of unrealistic, toss-away scenes wouldn't appear to be wildly inconsistent.

I'm less concerned about the hit and miss nature of this show. To me, any program that sets itself up in a crime-of-the-week format is gonna have its fair share of stinkers in any given season (especially considering that they are over 200 episodes now). But it is the purposeful fucktwittery going on with character storylines etc. that really makes me want to quit. this. damned. show.

(and yes, for the love of all that's holy, please stop with killing the wimmenfolk already)

[heliokleia.livejournal.com]

Time for a comment, because I ♥ polls and yours, dear, was way to tempting to ignore... ;)

Looks like I'm not the only one whose fave seasons are s04 and s05 (Spencer's hair!!), but o surprise, I'm more content with the actual season than I'd expected.

Is there more brutality and violence on the show now? - Hm... I don't know but IMO, CR was always very realistic in that department and that's one of the reasons, I started watching.
- Oopsie, did I read that right; Hotch is no longer on the show? Well, I'm a Spencergirl but ...noooooo!!
*gasps*
I had no idea, because in Good Ole Europe, the new season just started a few weeks ago...

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

There's something about check boxes that seems to make people happy ;)

Hotch is still on the show - don't panic! I don't think that we gave away too many spoilers in this posting (except maybe for episode 200), but in general, I've found this season to be better than the previous two, although certainly not stellar. I guess most of us here are North American as we are already discussing what might happen in season 10 and whether that will be the last one for the show.

[luscious-words.livejournal.com]

Many people have already said some of the things I'd say here, but I will say that one of the most disappointing things over the past few seasons is the change of JJ from an empathetic character to cold, hardened character. I understand that characters are supposed to develop, but this has not been development but rather assassination of who she was. When I think of JJ in The Longest Night vs. how she is now, I shake my head in disappointment. Yes, I can see that she might want to move into a different position on the team, but not that she would change as much as she has.

I'm also tired of the extreme gore and violence. It would be one thing to have it in a few episodes, but starting in season 7, it began to feel like each ep had to top the next with the gross-out factor. I've looked away from the screen several times because it's been too much to stomach. I would like to see a return to the subtlety of earlier seasons.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

It would seem that the shift in J.J. and the gore factor bother a lot of fans - you're in good company.

[mycha-kk.livejournal.com]

Well, I did not plan on commenting, but since I checked once I'll explain in comment, I don't have other choice ;)

First, I enjoyed all your opinions, thank you so much for sharing them, guys :) Now about the answers:

I love all the characters. I loved Garcia, Morgan, Reid and Gideon from the very beginning. I didn't care much for Hotch and Elle and JJ at first. I disliked Prentiss and despised Rossi and Strauss when they first appeared. But all the characters grew on me over the show. I came to love Prentiss and Rossi a lot, and was deeply saddened by Strauss's death. I enjoyed A LOT Seaver and I like Blake. So basically, I checked mostly all the characters ;)

I'm a crime/procedural junkie and when I stumbled upon CM episode on TV (the North Mammon from s.2) I got hooked. I stopped watching after Mandy left (Gideon, sob!), but returned to the show before season 7 and watch it regularly now. I'm fascinated by serial killers from psychological point of view, why they do what they do plus, I love mysteries and trying to figure out what's going on (who? why? when? etc...)

I enjoy the season a lot and at the beginning of this season CM was the only show I truly tuned in to watch, which hasn't been happening for the last two seasons as well as for my other fav shows (Bones, The Big Bang Theory) this fall.

I tune in for the bad guys and intriguing un-subs, that's why I'm really pissed off when we see the unsub during the first five minutes of the episode...

What I could do without, well, as I mentioned above, the reveal of unsub at the beginning of the episode, BUT, I'm even more irritated with storyline that are given to Reid. I love the character, but really, can't he have a happy ending for once? I was so PEEVED with the Meave storyline and so disappointed at the repetition of the angst. Gosh, this truly piss me off! Also I hate what they did with JJ. She's my least fav character at the moment. I actually wouldn't mind her being gone, she so- unrelatable/unlikable right now.

I want another season because I like and enjoy the show and I would still watch it even if someone of the cast left. I might have a hard time getting over Reid/Garcia/Morgan/Hotch/Rossi leaving but I survived Prentiss and Strauss, so I know I'll manage.

While I do enjoy the character drama and understand the need for it, I find it VERY unrealistic. Especially Reid's storylines. Hotch played out well IMHO, but Garcia's went a little over the top... I don't care much for JJ, so... But I liked a LOT Morgan's.

While i hope no one leaves, I wouldn't miss JJ much, nor Cruz. The rest better stay on the show!

This was fun :D thank for doing the poll :D

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Thanks for participating! That was the whole point of the poll... it was a crafty lure to get people talking ;)

[diemme.livejournal.com]

I still love the show though I haven't enjoyed the last two seasons much. The whole Replicator storyline with helicopters sabotaged, Strauss murdered, evil machinations from within and the miraculous escape was so over the top that it didn't seem to fit the series at all.

I watch more for the team now because the story telling and the unsubs just aren't as interesting as they were in the early seasons. I've enjoyed some of the wrapping up of Hotch and Morgan's storylines and the uncomplicated romances. I just hope Reid can have a trauma free personal life this season. Perhaps his mom going to the Grand Canyon is a good sign.

I quite like Blake. I think the writers have done a more consistent job with her character than they did with Seaver's. Cruz still feels like an outsider. (I miss Strauss, I'll admit it)

I wish JJ was still the media liaison where she was savvy and empathetic and tough and vital to the team. Her character feels a bit forced now, in my opinion. It's as if the producers and writers panicked because there wasn't a main female character who could beat people up after Prentiss left so they just decided to give JJ ass kicking skills.

I will miss Criminal Minds when it wraps up for good. It's like a relationship that's comfortable and friendly even though the passion is gone. I would love to have glimpses of Elle and Gideon in the final season - just to know how things turned out for them.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Ugh... The Replicator... I hated last season. I almost quit watching the show for good because of season 8.

I *hope* that the writing staff are smart about what happens next. I honestly think that this show has just one last season in it - if they do it right, it could be a very satisfying wrap-up for everyone. This isn't a franchise Like Law & Order which lasted for 25 years on air because it had a tradition of rotating characters and the audiences got used to actors leaving the series. If a few of the principle actors refuse to come back after their contracts are up (which is rumored), this show would be hard pressed to continue without them. In truth, I'd like to see this show end with satisfaction and dignity rather than it limp along with patchwork casting and inconsistent writing.

I guess we'll see...

[periantari.livejournal.com]

I remember getting into the show by watching ION television where to play reruns while it was about season 7 or 8 on CBS... i liked the heroes, the team that worked together to solve the crime. I also voted that i didn't like the torture (like the episode where they did lobotomies? that was gross and terrible) and yes, they kill way too many women.
My fave characters are Reid, Garcia and Morgan.

I do not know why ppl in here dislike the JJ changes that much-- i do not mind it but yes, after the 200 episode, there should be more time for her to recover because being tortured is a very traumatic experience!

Sad about last season when Maeve got killed and it seemed that the Replicator's motivations were too much to go through all that trouble to stalk and replicate the crimes that were done before.

This season has been pretty mediocre so far. I didn't like the Mr. and Mrs Anderson episode, didn't even finish it... there is nothing original and i really miss Prentiss as well and also miss the excitement of watching the show. It seems like the unsub's motivations are all repetitive now.

Just watched "Persuasion" and "Gaby" and both seem to lack the excitement and suspense from episodes in the past. My fave episodes include the Prentiss arc with Doyle which includes the episodes "Valhalla" and "Lauren"-- those were very good.

Also loved Reid episodes in the past including the one in which he gets captured and tortured by the guy who got tortured from his dad and the episode where he gets infected by something in the air which makes the team investigate what is going on.

[sue common (from livejournal.com)]

I would say tell morgan stop saying baby girl every week .i'm getting sick hearing it once a while hear it