An attempt at conversation

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

In the last episode comment posting in this community, some folks lamented the general atmosphere of crickets here, and then a_blackpanther suggested that some members might want to discuss more general themes related to the show, sooooooo... yeah, I decided to do a thing. And since things can be daunting for some, I decided to fill the thing with fun little checkboxes because who doesn't like checking things off, amirite?

Below is a poll with lots of questions that hopefully encourage a little back and forth. Feel free to expand on your opinions in the comments section, okay?


[Poll #1960090]

As I said above, please feel free to expand on your answers in the comments!

*EDIT*: LOL! I'm impressed that so many of you think that this show needs more dinosaurs XD

Comments

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

one thing I haven't seen discussed here (I wrote about it on my tumblr, which got reblogged enough to know I'm not alone) is the way really heavy episodes have a tendency to be brushed aside in order to show the ~team as a family~ narrative (aka pasta parties) in later seasons. example: in 200, JJ gets tortured for over 24 hrs, is made to relive losing her pregnancy, and found out that everyone on her iraq!team was betraying her in various ways...and we immediately go out to a bar to drink and SMILE! no trauma here folks! two weeks is totes enough time to sort myself out! this is made worse by the fact that Messer has literally said this storyline is over, the chapter's closed, so it's not like I can hope for a realistic depiction eventually. I get that they had Paget and wanted to do something happy with her, but it was so out of place and disrespectful of what JJ went through.

(also holy shit, the plot holes in that episode were big enough to fly the BAU jet through)

I don't mind the characters having traumatic pasts (thus far, they've made sense/been in character) and I don't mind them going through traumatic things (minus all the lady love interests dying omg stop), but please, please, PLEASE follow through! preferably within a season or two (I'm looking at you, Route 66...it's so out of place that I've divorced it from its shitty case and legit headcanon'd the hospital stuff all the way back to s6), tho I'll settle for slightly drawn out if done correctly (see: the profiler, profiled/foundation/restoration arc; a long time coming, but at least it made sense). follow through is important with keeping characters 3D, even the little things (hi, why has no one mentioned Morgan's specialities in bombs, obsessive behavior, or his undercover work in SEASONS), but it's so much more important when the thing you've referenced or created is traumatic. because even if the number of people who've been through [insert trauma here] is low, it's extremely disrespectful to them and those who have suffered similar situations to just throw it out the window in favor of a happy scene.

tbh, I couldn't pick between whether or not I want the show to have another season. despite being displeased by a lot of elements since s6, there's still a tiny (quickly dying) hope in me that we'll see more episodes like final shot and gabby. problem is that after all these years, they're still so few and far between and sometimes followed by really offensive episodes (I almost stopped watching after 8x21; I couldn't believe that after such a good episode dealing with sexual abuse (restoration), they decided to follow it up with a case based on false rape accusations)...that I certainty don't think the writers DESERVE another year. buuuut I know that won't stop me from watching if it does go on. pretty sure mgg, gibby, and/or shemar want to leave after 10 (p sure all their contracts are up after that), so maybe that'll be the thing that finally allows me to step away.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Messer said something pretty boneheaded about these 'team scenes' in a recent interview. She said that the team members needed the level of personal trauma in their lives because having them be 'normal' would look ridiculous juxtaposed against the cases they work. BUT, she didn't want the show to be a complete downer, hence the pasta-and-drinks scenes (ALWAYS at the end of an episode because 'they aren't the focus of the show'). And I was all "REALLY??? That just sounds like you are tired of hearing criticism so you took us all out for ice cream instead. Lazy producer! No biscuit!". I sorta got all rageful that she considered her audience to be so shallow that a handful of unrealistic, toss-away scenes wouldn't appear to be wildly inconsistent.

I'm less concerned about the hit and miss nature of this show. To me, any program that sets itself up in a crime-of-the-week format is gonna have its fair share of stinkers in any given season (especially considering that they are over 200 episodes now). But it is the purposeful fucktwittery going on with character storylines etc. that really makes me want to quit. this. damned. show.

(and yes, for the love of all that's holy, please stop with killing the wimmenfolk already)

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

are you talking about the buzzfeed article? bc p sure that was Frazier and Dunkle rather than Messer? either way, I remember reading it (and ofc it's like...the first bullet point?) and being like "then you need to shut the pasta parties DOWN!" it came out right before 200 so that was already stewing in my brain by the time they got to the bar and ugh, it just fanned the flames. like it's cool to be happy every once in awhile, but make sure it's appropriate to the situation? I agree with you re: Messer considering the audience as too shallow to get it...but at the same time, lemme tell you, don't browse the criminal minds tag on tumblr unless you want a lot of proof that she may be right. :-/ and like, fine, I understand not always wanting to analyze the shows you watch, but they legit advertise crimi as "the thinking man's show" (on ion, as I hear them say a million times every Monday and Tuesday :-P), so if Messer and her gaggle of writers could WRITE like it, that'd be nice.

(idk, probably doesn't help that I'm still not sold on the team as fam narrative. it's hard to get on board for me bc like...early seasons, they're super protective of one another, but push comes to shove? they're going to protect themselves first, even at their own detriment. hell, in one episode (s3? s4?), Morgan tells Hotch he's a good boss, but wouldn't want to hang out with him after work. I can see the possibility of them eventually heading in the direction of "made family," esp because they've become friends, good friends, but it didn't come organically, in my opinion anyway, so every time it comes up, it feels really forced.)

I think the hit and miss bit bothers me because it was such a huge shift to me? instead of loving 20 of the 22-24 episodes, it's more like I love 4 of the 23-24 episodes per season and some of the others are okay and the rest are just terrible. on top of that, it's really clear that it's related to the writer shift caused by cm: suspect behavior + Messer clumsily taking the reins...because the downhill slide for me starts on the back half of s5. tbh, I'm surprised I survived s6 because I have a lot of the same feelings about it as laceymcbain.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

I haven't read the Buzzfeed article *shrugs*, and (probably showing my age here) I do not do tumblr because I enjoy having actual conversations and using the letter 'e' where appropriate *double shrug*.

I belong to some other fandoms where the fan base is SUPERHYPERCRITICAL about everything to do with Show, and, honestly, that's tiring to be a part of. But a little feedback/criticism isn't something that should be buried simply because you 'fan' something. It's not like we all checked our brains at the door or something just because we've been known to squee high enough that only dogs can hear us at times.

Criminal Minds has story issues. It has unsatisfying character development (even if you don't care about that sort of thing, you'll notice it). If FANS have thought about these things, I find it hard to believe that the writers haven't considered these issues. While it is easy for us, as fans, to sit back and complain, I would like to think that any professional tv writer worth their salt would've raised a few of the points that have been raised here by casual observers. I'd like to think that this is all part of some fabulous plan on their part, but, increasingly, I think that they're just winging it.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

tbh, I only read the buzzfeed article because I got linked there by my younger sister and I am one of those older tumblr users. I think tumblr is like cm in that, if all (or perhaps just most) of my friends left, it'd be easier to leave myself. ;-) part of the reason I started using tumblr was that the crimi fandom had a lot of meta and general discussions about the show (and other things, but in the beginning, crimi was my all consuming fandom lol) at the time and I felt comforted by the fact that I wasn't the only one who felt like things had changed.

idk, I think I'd prefer super-crit over not? but I generally prefer to analyze media over not and it's hard for me to judge what super-crit would even mean; I've seen good ppl be pushed out of fandom for being too vocal about a fandom favorite (even tho they were vocal bc that character was also their favorite). it's easier for me to scroll past or otherwise ignore legit venting and/or meta than to scroll past really fucking terrible characterization.

which is...yeah, the show's not doing a good job with that. the most obvious to me is Reid, which no one really talks about because he's so cute! which apparently distracts people from the fact that he used to be a LOT more 3d than he is now. like...when he goes from having (at the very least) work email and knowing about pop culture to a technophobe who has never heard of lady gaga and legit tells a victim's friend that he doesn't have an email? something is w r o n g. very wrong. seems like most ppl would be happy to see him become a Sheldon (the Big Bang theory) clone, whiffle him down to a flat geek stereotype, which is just...sad. I've also got issues with JJ, but only in the way AJ and Messer keep trying to sell her as kickass. not because she isn't, but because it shows a thorough lack of JJ's character by both the actress and the showrunner and quite frankly, that's fucking terrifying to me. JJ was ALWAYS kickass. I just want to sit them down and make them rewatch, idk, ride the lightning? the end of penelope? any time JJ talks with the press?????? how was she just not badass before? bahhhhhhh.

[blythechild.livejournal.com]

Oh don't get me started on the inconsistencies in Reid's character... an endless thread of swearing and keyboard smashing would ensue... >:/

I prefer a critical, thinking fanbase over the squee-ing type, but one has to occasionally take a step back and remember what the hell it is you are critiquing in the first place. The type of behavior that has driven me from fandom in the past are hysterical, delusional rants (usually as a form of protection over a favorite character or actor) or a sense of fandom entitlement over show direction. Yep, I'm angry at the writers sometimes but that does not mean that I'd ever start a Twitter harassment campaign or try to contact actors/producers directly (I've watched this happen in other fandoms - horrifying). There's a level of meta that I can handle and anything past that squicks the hell out of me.

But, yeah, I enjoy talking about the show (both good and bad) - I just don't get how conversation works on tumblr (once again, showing my age...). Since I'm not on tumblr and only lurk in a few CM comms here on lj, I'm not getting a very wide view of the fanbase. We seem a bit... passive here, but if you say that fans are more vocal on tumblr, I'll take your word for it. Do you find that the prevailing opinion over there to be positive or negative regarding where the show is now? Just by what I've read in this one posting, it appears that many fans have problems with the same key issues (violence and characterization).

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

oh gosh, minor correction to my original remark - I listed the wrong episode. 8x19 was the gross case after restoration. for some reason, I always think restoration was 8x20, rather than 8x18. oops.