An alternative perspective

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

EDIT: This is a post for people to talk about WHY THEY WILL STILL WATCH. This isn't for people to reinterate sexism, why CBS sucks, etc. Please keep that in consideration!

I want to try something, and I'm sure it might not go over well. Mods...use your powers if you feel it right. But I think we need this here.

There are some of us, while sad AJ is leaving, who aren't going to stop watching the show. We may have thought some of the protests went too far. We may be excited for the change in team chemistry. Basically, we're gonna give it a shot.

We're also afraid that however calm and articulate we are, we'll be seen as flamers or we'll be flamed. I thought this could be the post for those of us who need to get this off our chests. Need to vent in another direction.

Feel free to be anon. I'd urge nobody to slam other fans, just talk about what they hope for season 6, why they aren't going to stop watching, etc. I don't want ANYONE ON ANY SIDE to feel insulted.

Whadda ya think?

EDIT: This is a 'Why I will watch' thread, not yet another place for people to state 'why they won't watch.'

Comments

[aratama.livejournal.com]

I'll repeat: This has nothing to do with whether JJ or Emily are people's favorite characters or not. This has nothing (or very little) to do with people throwing childish fits because their favorite characters or actors got snubbed. This has to do with CBS doing a shitty, misogynist thing which is shitty and misogynist regardless of what my personal feeling for JJ/AJ/Emily/Paget might be. When people say they don't want to watch the show anymore, they're not saying they won't watch a show they like just because a character they like left. What they're saying is that the show is less attractive to them now because it's suddenly a million times more offensive. This isn't "just" about fandom. This is about serious business issues which plague society, and how some of us really don't want to support it, even implicitly. That's why this is making people angry.

And if you don't get that, I honestly think you must have been reading all this kerfuffle with half an eye closed. And that, I think, is bad.

[aratama.livejournal.com]

I'll admit, after the AJ and Paget announcements today, I've given up. I wrote to CBS and I signed the petition, but their decision seems final and I don't think there's anything fandom or viewers can do, at this point. I'm not a US citizen so I can't even voice my distaste by not watching the show. It's frustrating as hell and I hate that they've won, but I sadly think they have.

For now, at least. I'm pretty sure this means ratings will be down for CM in season 6 and that it'll get canceled soon. And when that happens, I'll gleefully bring up all of this again and point out that this, this right here, how they fucked with the female cast, is the reason for its downfall, and CBS should feel ashamed of themselves, and maybe then, the point will get across to them. Maybe. But it isn't getting across to them now, and I sadly think any protest we might try right now will be futile. BLAH!

[iamtheliquorr.livejournal.com]

I completely agree with you. I didn't have much faith in the fan campaign working to begin with, but I participated anyway, because at least we could let the actors know we appreciate them, and at least we could make a point. So it wasn't totally for nothing, I suppose.

It's all such bullshit, and the sheer amount of Not Getting It in this post and in various other places is even more depressing to me than CBS's original actions. Guys, CBS is totally not sexist! It's not CBS's fault that male characters are more popular! Stop trying to be offended! Stop making such a big deal about just one character! For all you know the new girl could be awesome and that's totally the point here, right? Right?

I just don't even

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

Okay, this I take personally. Let me tell you why.

One of the things I learned in my Gender Studies minor in college is that just because something seems sexist to others doens't mean that's the intent. Also, the real BAU has a far, far smaller percentage of female members. If anything CBS has been generous in a realistic interpretation.

I understand that people see CBS as sexist, I can see they have a pattern of shorting female cast members in shows. But so have many, many other stations and networks.While this behavior may be status quo in the industry, that doesn't make it right. I get it. But let's break it down---perhaps this decision wasn't garnered by the gender of the characters at all. Perhaps, again an alternate view point.

Also, let's break this down. 40,000 signed the petition, not all of those are going to for sure stop watching the show. Do you REALLY think CBS cares about a couple of thousand? I don't, and I'm not being mean, I'm just stating a cold hard fact.

Basically, my issue with this whole thing is people who have used it as part of their cause (ie femininst). Feminist have been giving themselves a bad name for so long now it's not even funny. And, I'm going to say this not to insult anyone else, but this type of discourse is the reason I don't call myself a feminist anymore. People with causes will take any and every opportunity to co-opt something to make it about the cause or about them. I've seen it with 911, Katrina, the BP crimes, the list goes on and on. When people started crying 'sexist' and getting feminist blogs to cover the CM story, I turned off to the entire thing and wished I could have unsigned the petition. I don't want to be part of a mislead crusade.

While I understand your agrument, I'll have to respectfully disagree, and point out that this feminist viewpoint when it comes to Criminal Minds may be severely flawed. Then again, sexism could be the driving point behind CBS's decisions. I could be totally wrong. You could be totally wrong. We could both be right. I'd just like to bring up an alternate view. So please, don't tell me that I don't 'get it' because I don't subscribe to that viewpoint.

[aratama.livejournal.com]

just because something seems sexist to others doens't mean that's the intent

Pretty sure nothing after that will have a point I want to consider, sorry.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

You wanna live in a bubble, fine by me.

[aratama.livejournal.com]

rofl.

Go read something with the word "derailment 101" in the title and get back to me.

(Sorry, mods, if this seems like a flame -- but I really mean this.)

[iamtheliquorr.livejournal.com]

I've got something! http://www.derailingfordummies.com/ (http://www.derailingfordummies.com/)

[aratama.livejournal.com]

You are a much nicer person than I am! :') Thanks for that, maybe some other people here will stumble over it, too.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

This was a 'why I will watch' thread, not another place for quitters to rant. Have a bajillion other places to do that.

[aratama.livejournal.com]

I know. It's really hard when people getting upset over -isms harsh your squee. Why can't they just shut up or go away, you know?

Because fandom squee >>>>>>>> actual issues.

And with that, I think I need to step away from this before I get banned.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

I totally agree with you on that. I'm stepping away now too, and I started this post! And I'll admit, I got a bit flamey there too when I didn't mean too. Sorry all!

[iamtheliquorr.livejournal.com]

lmao, I'm not so sure about that, but thanks!

Your responses on this post have been A++

[dannicawebb.livejournal.com]

"One of the things I learned in my Gender Studies minor in college is that just because something seems sexist to others doens't mean that's the intent."

Basic principle in oppression theory (any form of oppression): just because the intent isn't malicious doesn't mean the act itself is automatically not sexist (or racist or whatever ist). Good intentions have driven systems of oppression for centuries. The intention behind an act doesn't immediately decide whether or not the act itself is sexist (or racist or whatever).

And I gotta second the derailingfordummies link.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_nextboldmove_/]

I agree with you, and I should have expounded on my own comment. I see both sides, I really do. My problem is that I try to push opposing viewpoints, even if I don't agree with them, to see where it takes both myself and others in a forum/discussion.

I don't participate in comments much on LJ, so I forgot how things work on here, which I guess is why people see me as they do. That's my fault.

[antoinettemason.livejournal.com]

you seem to be contradicting yourself in your comments. you claim here that you're trying to push opposing viewpoints/promote discussion, yet upthread and in your edit you say this is a "why i will still watch" post. one says you welcome discussion, the other says you only want to hear views that agree with yours. which is it?

i also think a lot of the flak you (and a few others) are getting here is coming from those who are taking a strong feminist stance on the issue perceiving a complete denial of the sexism involved in cbs' decision. i don't think anyone is berating anyone else for their decision to keep watching; their issue is more that they feel like they're seeing cbs' sexism denied/explained away/justified and that's what they're taking issue with. the commenters who've said that they're still planning to watch, while still acknowledging the sexism inherent in cbs' actions haven't received any negative comments that i've seen.

personally, i'll admit that i'm deeply torn. i love the show, and i love the remaining characters, but i can't help feeling a bit skeevy in continuing to support a network that treats women so disrespectfully. at the moment, i'm more leaning towards not watching than watching, but if i do continue watching i don't think i'm going to be very comfortable with it.