Reid spoilers from EW

[klutzy-girl.livejournal.com]

Criminal Minds scoop, please! — Rosie

There’s much more to the story about Dr. Reid’s headaches…except you won’t find out until next season, according to EP Erica Messer. “That’s something that we’re talking to Matthew [Gray Gubler] about and the writers are all trying to figure out what stories we’ve dropped. Honestly, that storyline, that whole idea behind that, started before we lost A.J. [Cook] and Paget [Brewster]. There was a chance that we were fearing to lose Matthew just because of contract negotiations, and that storyline kind of got implanted and then never truly paid off in this season, but we want to sort of conclude that next season. That’s the plan.” Thank goodness the Gubler told me he’s all set for next season and exited about it. Can you imagine a Gube-less CM? Hells to the no! This team is magic!

Source

Comments

[sugakane-01.livejournal.com]

That's my thinking too. There's no way they can give him a mental illness and he remain an agent and for me a Reid-less BAU would probably be enough to make me stop watching.

The only thing that has me worried about them giving him a brain tumor or physical illness that we'd see play out is that the writers haven't shown themselves capable of any kind of follow through with stuff like that. We find out Morgan was molested and its basically never mentioned again. Hotch had a couple of episodes (while Morgan was unit chief) where it seemed like he was dealing w/some PTSD and it then it disappeared. They never really dealt w/anything that happened in 100 after he came back. Reid had the magical disappearing drug addiction (one minute he's shooting up in the restroom, the next he's at a meeting declaring himself 10 months clean). To quote Hotch, the writers front site, and trigger press, but rarely do they follow through.

The only arc I remember them playing out in its entirety was Gideon's PTSD. During his entire run you saw little cracks, mini freak outs, stuff that let you know he was still on the edge from his time in Boston. Everything else big, they've dropped.

I just hope if they decide to go back to this story they actually tell a story...a complete, developed story arc.

[arrivee.livejournal.com]

i wish they had followed through with the drug addiction story line. those would have been intriguing episodes.

[sugakane-01.livejournal.com]

Same here. We should have at least gotten to see a detox episode.

I think the reason it irks me so much that it was dropped is it left me w/some weird, unresolved anger w/the team lol. The way it played out its like everyone knew he was in *some* kind of trouble and yet all he got was a really half arsed pep talk from Gideon. We know from later episodes Hotch, at some point, he had a drug problem but we never saw him get any real support from anyone and we're kind of left to fill in the blanks as to how he got better. The idea that they let him wander around in the field with an active addiction irks me and every attempt at "support" they showed someone giving him came off like Reid (the profiler) was more important than Spencer (the person). Both Gideon and Morgan basically made it job related (use it to make you a better profiler). Idk...the whole thing was a fail for me.

[e-rousset.livejournal.com]

A Reid-less BAU would make me stop watching the show too, no question about that.

I think it could be easier for the writers to follow through a physical disease than a psychological one. Showing the symptoms of a physical disease and dealing with it would probably be less difficult.

What I fear is to see Reid simply saying that his headaches are stress related, or Reid briefly consulting a therapist and get better.
If that's what they have in mind, I would prefer them to drop the storyline.

Just like you I want a real, developed story. And I think they could do that if his symptoms are the cause of a physical disease.

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

What? Morgan's molestation is not ever explicitly mentioned again, but that is in every movement his character makes. Every time he's rougher with someone who hurts children, the way he treats kids and rape victims, how angry he gets about religion because God didn't help him. That wasn't dropped.

Reid's drug arc wasn't dropped, either, but everyone fights me tooth and nail otherwise, so I'm not even going to start on them.

The fact that something isn't anvil-ing you in the face doesn't mean it never happened.

[fun-french-fri.livejournal.com]

Subtlety? What could that possibly be?

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I don't know. I mean I'm still mad at that last scene in "Lauren", you know--if they wanted us to know it was Prentiss, they should've shown her face and kept my simple mind from being so confused!!!11!!11

:|

[sugakane-01.livejournal.com]

:( I didn't mean to offend or imply I'm too obtuse to not recognize things unless they are put in flashing neon signs.

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

Sorry; that wasn't directed specifically at you. It's just a very, very common thing to see in this fandom, and fun_french_fri&I get a little frustrated by it.

[sugakane-01.livejournal.com]

Ok :)

I mean, I totally didn't mean we needed a season of Morgan going through therapy or Reid in rehab or anything. Just that there's a fine line between being subtle and leaving things feeling undone which I think they do a lot in CM.

I mean, like with Morgan I don't feel like his behavior w/kids and victims of sexual abuse is them following through as much as it is explaining things. He's always been that way (like during P911 he has a MAJOR case of the angry) so to me Profiler, Profiled just gave us insight into why. Sort of provided a different lens to view earlier episodes. Sort of like with Reid. Once they introduced Diana and we find out she's institutionalized, if you go back and watch Derailed the scene where he's talking to Dr. Bryer is suddenly...idk more. Does any of this make any kind of sense LOL?

LOL I know I'm rambling but I'm one of those weird people that if its mentioned onscreen, I remember it even when there's seemingly no reason to. Like, I'm still wondering what happened to the four brothers Garcia said she had P911. She never mentions her family (at least not that I can remember) even when it seems like she would (like when she was shot).

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

I replied to the first two bits here ha: http://criminalxminds.livejournal.com/1647907.html?thread=13945635#t13945635

Garcia's parents actually died in a car accident when she was eighteen. She had a step-father, so it's ~plausible that they were her step-brothers and were a lot older than her, so she wasn't close to them. tbh though I think they just forgot that she mentioned her brothers in P911. The reason for her family not being there in "Penelope" is def because her parents weren't alive, though--she talks about that quite a lot in the episode. About how she's lived since then on the principle that "everything happens for a reason", and she couldn't lose hope in that because then nothing would make sense anymore.

[sugakane-01.livejournal.com]

I totally get your point of view :)

I am grateful for the moments of...idk..acknowledgement they give Reid's addiction. Like I'll always remember the scene where he's talking to Emily about writing a letter of amends and sort of trails off and there's this look of understanding that passes between them. I guess I feel like they gave us point A (the addiction) and have given us point C (the recovery) but not point B (the journey in between). But I do agree it was a better idea in theory than in practice and its water under the bridge at this point. :)

Oh, I knew about her parents death (for the life of me I can't remember which epi it was (Lucky? Penelope? but I know she made a reference to "going off the rails" and dropping out of school) but it just seemed weird to me that four brothers just disappeared into the ether lol. Although, I guess maybe sort of, somehow I can attribute the comment she made to JJ in "Cradle to Grave" about how she knew what it was like to lose her parents and "the people closest to her" getting her through it" as her talking about her brothers. Maybe? IDK.

*semi related PG note* I just watched Extreme Aggressor and OMG her look has changed lol. She was so...not PG looking in the pilot. She was so conservative. I wonder if that was b/c she wasn't a series regular yet. And Morgan was in a suit! And Reid was in the ugliest sweater ever. And Hotch was...happy, smiling, giggly man. And Gideon was...well Gideon was apparently always Gideon LOL.

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

And that was the point: To give context to why Morgan acts the way that he does. It's something that he'll live with for the rest of his life, but by the time we meet Morgan, it's not something that's been actively happening to him for ten-fifteen years. The layer to Morgan's characterization that was added by that episode was the whole point. It doesn't have to be at the forefront of everything for it to be there. Like in "Into The Woods", you could see the way that Morgan reacted to the case, even subtly, and realize that he was thinking about his own trauma. It wasn't so much a story line as a layer, a reasoning.

Like I said, I'm not dealing super-hard with the Reid arc right now because I never get anywhere with that. It seems to be a you-see-it-or-you-don't thing. I see the subtle moments, like the sad smile in "With Friends Like These" when Seaver mentions the suspects being drug addicts in their mid-twenties, or the moments where Reid knows a little too much about support groups for it to be learned from a book. This show works better with its subtle moments, which is probably why I hate the colossal amounts of anvil-dropping this season.

[e-rousset.livejournal.com]

I think Morgan's backstory introduced in 'Profiler Profiled' was treated accordingly. He's not going to bring it up every time, of course, but we know it's there and it shows in some cases. I agree with you here.

As for Reid and his drug addiction they 'resolved it' in two episodes 'Distress' and 'Jones', he got better after a short conversation with Gideon.
Even Ed. Bernero admitted in an interview that this story sounded better on paper than it actually was, that the format of the show couldn't support this story, and that Reid just "got better".
They wrote themselves in a hole with that one, so they had to resolve it hastily. Their resolution is far from realistic, but they should have thought harder about the whole story before deciding to introduce it. I don't want the writers to go back to that story, there would be no point in my opinion.

In the same way, Reid's headaches got better after a short conversation with Morgan.
I'm quite sure that nothing will come out of them picking up that storyline again. In all likelihood Reid will just say it was stress related. Maybe there will be talk about him seeing a therapist, and that will be it.

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

Okay, I give in, lmao. EXTENSIVE ANSWER AHEAD.

They didn't resolve the drug addiction in "Jones", though. There are mentions of it peppered through the rest of the series.

3x02 "In Name and Blood": Hotch mentions "that another one of my team members may have an unchecked drug addiction that I haven't reported" to Prentiss in the list of things she could have told Strauss about. One of the deleted scenes had Morgan and Reid talking (very similar to the bathroom scene in "With Friends Like These") and edging around the drug conversation. When Hotch comes back to the case, he looks at Reid and says, "I need your head in this." and Reid gives a quiet, "I know." It's not just about Gideon, there.

3x15 "A Higher Power": The scene where Reid and Prentiss are talking and Reid realizes that the "suicide notes" are amends letters. He knows too much about the meetings, and there's a moment where Prentiss gives him a look, and he looks away.

3x16 "Elephant's Memory": Obviously, we have Reid attending Narcotics Anonymous meetings because he's still dealing with cravings. It's not something that went away for him, and he's still struggling with it. There's another mention of Hotch knowing what was going on here, too. ("I think you need to go finish that movie.")

3x19 "Tabula Rasa": This deals more with Reid's PTSD than his actual addiction, but the two are very closely intertwined, so I'm listing it. There's a scene near the end where Reid and Hotch talk about how closure is not a linear thing--there's not a "Okay, well, I'm totally fine with this now" moment after the bad guy is dead or in jail. It's very pointedly both about the victim's father and Reid himself.

4x20 "Conflicted": Again with Reid's PTSD, and there's another moment where he's talking to Adam about drugs--"I have headaches." / "Then get a prescription."--it's very short, but it's one of the parallels drawn between the two in that episode.

4x24 "Amplification": This is one of the big ones. He flat out specifically refuses narcotics despite having a very, very painful death ahead of him via Anthrax. If he wasn't still struggling with this off-screen, he wouldn't have been so adamant about not having narcotics. Because Reid (and the writers) realize that a drug addiction isn't something you beat and just wave goodbye to--it will always be there, and there will always be that chance of relapse. Being given narcotics in the hospital could have jump-started that for him.

There are probably several moments that I'm missing right now, as well. I'm not going into season five because I haven't rewatched it, or season six, because I mentioned that in a previous comment.

They let the headaches go unresolved; I completely agree with that. But the drug addiction and PTSD? That didn't just go away over night. And idk who mentioned this earlier, but there was a comment about wanting a detox episode--but I honestly think that's missing the point, too. It doesn't end with detox, either. It's never going to be totally over for Reid--that's always going to be there under the surface.

[thecowboycliche.livejournal.com]

Also the S5 opener when he got shot.. I don't think he took meds. Unless I'm just imaging that lol.

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

You're imagining. ;) They don't actually show him with the EMTs. He pretty much immediately gets down to business telling the team about Hotch.

[thecowboycliche.livejournal.com]

I thought JJ asked about him or mentioned something though...

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

At the end of the ep, she says, "I just talked to Spence. He's gonna be fine. He'll be on crutches for a while, but he said kickin' down doors is Morgan's job, anyway."

I just rewatched both scenes (when he gets shot / when they're talking about it near the end), and it's not mentioned. It's a really common thing in fic, though. It took me a moment to separate ginny214's fic about it from actual canon, ha.

[thecowboycliche.livejournal.com]

Gotcha lol. I guess fandom just assumed. XD

[e-rousset.livejournal.com]

I didn't forget any of the scene you mentioned when I wrote my comment.
And I never said that they forgot about Reid having issues with drugs, because I know they didn't.

I'm talking about the way they managed to have Reid detox, because just after "Jones", in "Ashes and Dust", it's clear Reid is already way, way better : he jokes with Prentiss at the beginning, JJ makes a joke about him too, he's not moody at all, he's agreeable and very efficient.

I'm not saying that absolutely everything was resolved by then, no (he even makes that mention about fire being like a drug and say that the unsub will need help).
But from the moody and snappy Reid we had just before, that's a big, big change showing us that Reid is already healing.

The passage from addict craving/using and wondering if he even wants to keep his job to the Reid we had in 'Ashes and Dust' is what I was talking about.
And apparently that change happened after he talked to Gideon and told him he wouldn't miss another plane in "Jones".

Here's what Ed Bernero himself exactly said : "Let me put it this way: It was something we thought on a drawing board was a better idea than it became. I don't think that the format of the show really supported following Reid's character around being drug addicted. I think that it ultimately was a better idea theoretically than it ended up being in practice. So, I think we just kind of...he got better."

I don't disagree with you, they mentioned it after and let us understand that Reid was sometimes struggling (Elephant's Memory) but that he wasn't going to fall back in that trap ('Amplification').
But the transition to get Reid better in 'Ashes and Dust' (his conversation with Gideon at the end of 'Jones') was more than hasty and very convenient. They wrote themselves in a corner and had to find a way to rectify things.

But I perfectly understand why Ed. Bernero and the others wrote it that way. They needed Reid to get better soon if they didn't want to break the character. Hotch couldn't have turned a blind eye for long, so they needed Reid better asap.
That's why I said they should have thought more about the consequences of that storyline before introducing it (and from what Ed. Bernero said, they didn't).

Please, don't take this comment in a negative way because I perfectly understand your point of view. And I agree, they didn't forget about Reid and his drug issues, and I never said they didn't try to deal with it.

[x-forgetromeo.livejournal.com]

I keep trying to reply to this and it keeps disappearing! Silly livejournal.

tbh I don't think Gideon's conversation with him in "Jones" did anything but make him realize that he needed to tone it down at work, which is why there was the change between "Jones" and "Ashes and Dust". He's obviously still struggling with it (the analogy between the arsonist/a drug addict), and he obviously needs help that no one's giving him (which is not out of character for the team when someone isn't in immediate, life-threatening danger).

And he's right, the format of the show doesn't really work with that--you can't follow Reid around while he detoxes or show every single instance of healing along the way. And so we get flashes of it and get to put the rest of the pieces together because the writers know that we're smart enough to do so.

[e-rousset.livejournal.com]

Yes Ed. Bernero was right, the format of the show couldn't follow Reid being addicted.
But from Ed. Bernero's words, he himself acknowledged that the idea wasn't well thought out to begin with and that they had to rectify things("It was something we thought on a drawing board was a better idea than it became").

Reid's change of attitude is impressive between those two episodes. I don't think he simply toned down his attitude. His whole demeanor is different and if some viewers weren't aware they would never know something was different with Reid.
Like Bernero said "I think we just kind of...he got better".

But I'm glad they let Reid get better that quickly.

And I agree with you, I don't think Gideon did much. Actually I think he did nothing. Apparently Reid had to help himself, which like you said isn't out of character for the team.
But from time to time I like to think his friend Ethan helped him (or at least tried to).

[westmoon.livejournal.com]

I agree that he seemed to change pretty radically between Jones and Ashes and Dust, but then that's pretty symptomatic of the show as a whole - to move things along quickly and leave it up to the viewers to figure out what happened behind the scenes. And I'm mostly fine with that, because in earlier years we did get those subtle hints throughout that told us how the characters were coping, and we could create those missing moments on our own.

But the dreadful anvil-like writing of the last two years, dropped storylines and some of the ridiculous OOC moments have pretty much made it impossible for us to keep doing that.

As much as I loved the earlier writers (and I would give anything to see them return), I do think they dropped the ball on the personal impact of Reid's addiction and PTSD, because frankly Morgan and Gideon's talks with him focused more on his work than him as an individual. Honestly, Morgan's line that this would make him a better profiler enrages me every time I watch that scene - that's not what Reid's looking for or needs at that point. So for me, the thought of his team members watching him struggle, but not coming forward to help him in any practical way, makes me roll my eyes when they talk about them all being a family.

Even given all that, I could live with those scenes, because the writing was so much better in the past, and there were enough small moments that showed they were keeping their character arcs consistent. And honestly, I like my characters being imperfect and not always doing the right thing. I don't want them to be perfect, I want them to be human.

Unfortunately I don't trust the current crew to do anything meaningful with Reid's headaches. The fact that they're just now trying to "figure out" all the stories they've dropped doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence.