Emily's Exit Story / family break up / the strong woman

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

What do you think they will do / what do you want happen?

I really hope they don't kill her off, I never like character deaths. I'm a comic book fan and my favourite part of fandom is fandom - with the canon as commonly accepted shared fodder. If a character dies, it's a lot harder to write in an appearance for them as something that happened between episodes!

I wondered if I'll be okay with Hotch/Prentiss* if she's no longer a main character - I don't want canon shipping between the main cast because then it will overtake the ensemble show format, but at the same time, I've always loved how Prentiss was her own women, and having her no longer a main character but a main character's girlfriend, be she Hotch's GF or Morgan's GF or Reid's GF (I ship that), that would feel like a lessening.

A lot of people said they would stop watching if Reid leaves, or Hotch leaves, or Rossi, but well, out of everyone, in-universe, Reid and Hotch leaving makes the most sense, and it wouldn't be sad, they could still visit. I thought "True Genius" gave Reid the opening of finding something to do with his Physics degrees, and ha, because we don't have enough gender flip, it'll be cool if he adopts a kid with Emily and HE quits to stay with the kid! Hotch would quit to spend more time with Jack, who had already lost his mother. Rossi solved that case that was haunting him - but I can't see Rossi quitting unless there was someone else to take his place - of taking care of the team, and there isn't anyone right now, who either have a lot on their plate, or is very much a baby (Garcia).

I didn't want it to be a pregnancy, because it is cliche, it is so cliche, but perhaps if they do it, it's balanced out by JJ having a baby and not quitting her job - because quitting a job for your children is a faultless option, for man or woman. I just don't like it when it is often unquestionably expected of women, and when female characters overwhelming portrayed as the ones who have to leave to take care of the kids.

What I want the most: is for Emily to stay. I'll be okay with Hotch or Reid leaving, because they have their reasons. I still love Gideon best, but it was definitely his time to leave. As it was Elle. With Emily, it's just Too Soon. Hotch has Jack. Reid has his physics degrees and a mother in care. JJ has Henry AND a husband with abandonment issues (Will's mother died, and then his father died while working on a case in spite of Will's pleads for him to leave). Emily just doesn't seem to have a good reason to quit, a job that she seem to love kicking ass at. Except - if Interpol wants her back.

* Hotch/Prentiss happy ending (as suggested by some comments on tvline): I'm not a 'die-hard' shipper, to paraphrase Sunfreak, I believe that depending on the circumstances, anyone can love anyone. I could see Hotch/Prentiss, and there are things I do like about it, but it makes me uncomfortable the way Hotch/Reid or Prentiss/Reid does not. Why? Expectations. All three of the female characters in the main cast is strong in their own ways, but ironically, while Emily Prentiss is the most outwardly strong and masculine / unisex woman - she wears pantsuit in black or gray colors while JJ and Garcia often wears neutral toned or colourful skirts. Prentiss speaks in the no-nonsense intonation typically used by men, and 'dyke'* identified women in the queer subculture, while traditionally Most Women end their sentences on a soft tone almost like a question, and she's primary an agent of action.

In spite of her Strong and Masculine narrative (and those two are often stuck together), Prentiss was Vulnerable On The Inside, she's at core less self-assured than JJ. That's okay, hey, that's Hotch post Foyet as well, but while Hotch's Strong on the Outside, Vulnerable on the Inside, is just one of the many many varying portrayal of men available in the media. All too often, women in the media are whittled down to The Girlfriend, or, Ms Independent...who secretly needs a man and is relieved when she finally gets to Settle Down with one, the popularly intended narrative of All About Eve (1950)...though Bette Davis rescued it so that it was more 'she was a long time thespian workaholic who's going to retire and enjoy life' and less 'she finally found her true calling as The Girlfriend as oppose to a career she was merely experimenting with'.

I'm just worried that if they make Hotch and Prentiss canon, instead of 'even the strong are sometimes vulnerable and lean on your partner', it's going to come off as, 'Strong' Woman Prentiss just needs to find a big enough Alpha Male to take charge. ...and while there is nothing individually wrong with that, I've read some stuff like that in the kink meme, pretty much every character. Overwhelmingly, it's the female characters who secretly hate being in charge and just wants to settle down, and goddamn, we need our alternatives for diversity.

...and let me clarify, I'm totally not knocking those who ship Hotch/Prentiss, it just makes me uncomfortable, almost as uncomfortable as The Comedian / Silk Spectre I, and I ship THAT.

ETA:
*'dyke', for the purpose of this article, this term is used by this dyke (me) and queer culture buff in the context of queer coding: a tradition of writing or reading a character as queer through a set of behaviour where they don't actually do anything homosexual - and therefore would have beenagainst the rules of the old Hollywood Code. See The Celluloid Closet, or thebratqueen's three essays: the dead gay stereotype, buffy and gay stereotype, and angel and gay stereotype.
-- me: just last week, in spite of the fact that I have my hair in a ponytail and wasn't even wearing a collared shirt, a woman I was speaking to addressed me as 'sir' because of my mannerism
- Queer Coding: AfterElton: High School Musical 3's Ryan Evans still a coded gay character - Posted by Dennis Ayers, Editor on October 24, 2008
-- Emily's Queer Coding: Oh, I guess in addition to my worries of Strong Woman Needs A Stronger Men if they ship her with the very Alpha Hotch (I know they said they wouldn't, but it was a part of no main cast shipping and Prentiss is leaving), I'm fearing the Cured Lesbian Scenario. Okay, there was Doyle, but that was part of her cover! I read way more into what Emily said to Garcia about the girl on the hill and how precious Garcia is to Emily.
---...and holy Cable and Deadpool! What might have been: The show's executive producer Ed Bernero told the publication, "We don't even know if Prentiss is straight," (Feb 2011): and do I hate CBS with the venom of a thousand brown recluse? Yes I do. I don't care if Paget Brewster decided to renew her contract, this is a decision she made after much dickery on the part of CBS, they fired her, they yanked her back, she asked for an apology and a raise, and they were like lol we'll just sue you, and I believe that they didn't handle contract talks with her in good faith.
-- Additionally: 'Queer Women' works for homosexual and bisexual women, though in some
places, queer is offensive, while in others, 'homosexual' is no longer in use except when discussing haters uproar or anti-bills against 'homosexual acts' or 'homosexual conspiracy'. Dyke =/= queer women and queer women =/= dyke. The 'dyke' identity is not just one of sexual orientation but gender as well. This is a word that is highly dependent on context, 1)if you are not queer, you probably shouldn't use it except someone identifies as such, and to stop when you start criticizing least it becomes used as a derogatory, and 2) while it has gender connotation, it is still a queer word. In entertainment, non-heteronormative is a way to code a character as queer without saying it, due to the aforementioned old Hollywood Code, but In Real Life, non-hteronormative =/= dyke.



crossposted from criminalminds Dreamwidth

Comments

[philstar22.livejournal.com]

Sometimes, character death works. ER always did it well. I just rewatched season 8, and while I bawled my eyes out when Mark Greene died, the storyline was amazingly well done. On the other hand, it can be done badly. And I can't really see it working on CM, and with Prentiss. Not after the team thinking her dead. That would be too cruel.

Honestly, I don't get your fears about Hotch/Prentiss. The writers have said over and over it is not and will not be canon. I don't think they are going to go back on their word. Honestly, I find your fear a little odd given what the writers have said.

[e-rousset.livejournal.com]

Generally speaking, I don't have a problem with character death as long as it's well written.
Having said that, I don't think they'll kill off Prentiss, or at least, in this case, I hope they won't.
After the Ian Doyle storyline, Prentiss almost dying, having to fake her death for seven months, her funerals with her team mates, and Prentiss coming back to the BAU...Well I don't think killing her off one season after the events, for real this time, would work well (as a storyline).
The viewers just went through something similar with Prentiss not even a year ago during 'Lauren' and the subsequent episodes, even if she wasn't really dead.

I remember P.Brewster saying in an interview that she asked the writers to kill off Prentiss (when she was fired).
But I hope that this time, she doesn't feel the same way and that Prentiss will leave, happy, and that she'll go to bigger and brighter things.

I could see Prentiss wanting to get away because she needs to do something else with her life in order to heal from her trauma with Doyle.
Hotch told her to keep him updated if she had a bad day, and maybe we'll see Prentiss coming to the conclusion that she wants to do something else with her life now.

I don't think Prentiss has less of a reason to quit than Hotch or Reid has (and we did see Reid saying in "True Genius" that it felt incredibly right to be with the team and working with all of them - not saying that it couldn't change, but right now he's happy where he's).
Their work is so important to them, but I suppose they can all be pushed past their breaking point, Prentiss included.
I also suppose they could all do something else, professionally wise, since they all have talents/capacities that go beyond profiling (Hotch was a prosecutor, Prentiss is a polyglot and graduated Yale, Reid is a scientist in multi disciplines, Morgan is a hand to hand combat coach and graduated a law school, Garcia is a computer tech and one of the best there is, JJ is the person to go to for communication liaison, Rossi is a best selling author).

As for Hotch and Prentiss, no I don't think it'll become canon. They have just introduced Beth this season, Hotch is apparently happy with her and from what the writers said, Hotch is going to introduce her to Jack soon.
After all of that, I can't see the writers deciding to put Hotch and Prentiss together in roughly ten episodes.
I have never shipped Hotch and Prentiss, but that's beside the point. I just can't see Hotch dating anyone else so soon, since he has just embarked on a new relationship.

[citjara.livejournal.com]

I think Paget wanted Prentiss killed so that her story from the show was "closed" or "tied up" and so she couldn't (be made to) come back.

I don't want them to kill her, but hearing that she's been dealing hard with getting back into her old life, I think it would be good if she realized that her old life is actually gone and that she cannot pretend it's not. Therefore, she'll take up another job offer. In Season 2, she mentioned State Department. I could also see her take care of Declan, should that be an option. She has always made a point of enjoying kids.

However, there are not 10 more eps to tie things up for Prentiss. Ten more will air, BUT they are currently shooting 7x19 Heathridge Manor, so there's only 5 (4, as the last two are a two hour special I think) to write her "leaving" storyline.

[spriggina.livejournal.com]

Except - if Interpol wants her back.

THIS. If this happens, I will be...well, still not exactly happy, but at least pleased.

I want to see Emily presented with another challenge that she can uniquely face, but unfortunately it takes her away from the BAU. We've heard about other organizations trying to recruit Reid (for obvious reasons), and JJ, but with at least 6 languages, field experience in the CIA (or was it just Interpol?) and the BAU, I can't imagine Emily hasn't been approached multiple times to take other jobs.

Then I can imagine she's off having adventures...plus she could totally guest star if Paget was game. :D An international case extends to the US where they must collaborate with the FBI for jurisdictional issues, or something like that...

I'm really not concerned about Prentiss/Hotch going canon, I just don't get the impression the show will go there. However, I loved your analysis about why you'd prefer the ship to not become canon. That's pretty much my reasons too (and I love the fic for the pairing!) Also, I always imagine the emotional communication between Hotch and Prentiss would consist purely of them being stoic at each other. So, not the best romance or drama.

[dhae_knight_1]

Urgh. After Doyle and all, I not only want her to never go near Interpol again, I doubt I'd buy she did it voluntarily if she did.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

Plot-wise, Interpol wants her back is the most satisfying, but the problem with that is that spywork is dangerous! I don't want an unhappy ending.

Though OMG OMG! How about if Interpol wants her back to train or overseers other agents?


Hehehe, I would LOVE it if Paget Brewster goes to work on Homeland with Mandy Patinkin, though the problem with that is that it ain't no comedy. Glee because she can sing? (plus, Reid's MOM! Also, did you know that Reid's mom is also Charlie Sheen's therapist?).

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

Could you please change this sentence: "Prentiss speaks in the no-nonsense 'dyke' intonation (I use it too, apparently Most Women end their sentences on a soft tone almost like a question, while most men (or alpha males) and dykes don't do that), and she's primary an agent of action."

I don't care if you're LGBT or what not, but it's extremely rude to refer to gay women (as a group) as "dykes." The only time "dyke" is an appropriate word is when a gay woman has told you that's how they identify and then it's ONLY appropriate when referring to that one woman.

Not all gay women are okay with reclaiming that word and your usage of it in that sentence is really inappropriate.

[dhae_knight_1]

Not only that, but it bugs me to be thought of as "less feminine" because I don't do what the 'Men are from Mars'-crowd tell me is feminine. Prentiss is no less feminine than JJ, she's just different (very much like Reid is different from Hotch). :-/

[ansera.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I actually thought that here she (gysh that is) meant a particular portion of the lesbian group who identified as dykes. Although, personally, I do think it's pretty strange word to use in relation to Emily since she never struck me to identify as one (in canon that is, if you're talking about your own fanon, then go ahead).

Although, as a linguist, I'm going to have to correct you in that the assumption on how women speak is just that, an assumption. It's been proven otherwise way too many times but I just don't like how people still believe it to be true, it's perpetuating way too many stereotypes about the different genders.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

I do identified as dyke, though recently I've shifted more towards gender queer but feminine behaviour always felt a bit like theatre to me.

...but I've altered it to this:
Prentiss speaks in the no-nonsense intonation typically used by men, and 'dyke' identified women in the queer subculture, while traditionally Most Women end their sentences on a soft tone almost like a question, and she's primary an agent of action.

I read the 'dyke' speech difference in some queer magazine years ago, it was either a study on difference in speech patterns considering subcultures, or difference in identities and shaerd behaviour between the het and queer community - and due to segregation (there was a time when Toronto's queer village wasn't just a tourist spot), there was a lot of differences in daily slang and coded(?) behaviour, that serves both to indicate how you identify yourself and sometimes what you like.

...but it's probably becoming outdated now that merely wearing pants doesn't make you lesbian anymore. I read another recent article that a lot of women are suffering from Bogart-Bacall syndrome from intentionally deepening their voices because deep voice = authority.

Still, a character like Emily is rare, and the way she's written as a woman can be seen as being 'queer coded' (characters that, since we really don't have a lot of queer and out characters, the queer community embrace as One of Us One of Us). thebratqueen does a much better job than me explaining queer coding in Buffy and Gay Stereotypes (http://thebratqueen.livejournal.com/187497.html) and Angel and Gay Stereotypes (http://thebratqueen.livejournal.com/195009.html).


...and I'm a queer women who is okay with that word because it was my identity for a long time, and still is, on the masculine side of genderqueer.

[nwjarvis.livejournal.com]

I guess I understand that Paget is still a little pissed with the way she was jerked around, but still, she's got a steady gig with as much job security as you can expect in a TV series, a decent (I'm sure) salary, states that she loves being around the people she works with, and works on what is by all accounts a 'fun' set.

I really think this decision will be one she will look back on in the future ans say to herself "What The Hell Was I Thinking?"

It's her life, her career, and absolutely her decision, but still.

[dhae_knight_1]

In general, I've seen actors realize the value of these things in their second or third shows. Rarely in their first. I wish her all the best, and I understand why she's walking, but I worry about her job-opportunities.

[kgrier.livejournal.com]

I don't generally mind character deaths, either, if done well. However, after it was used as a ploy last season, I'm not sure anyone could pull it off well. That is to say, in the Criminal Minds universe, it could be done (especially if it was either an utterly surprising and ultimately senseless death, i.e. Wash in Serenity, or there's a slow and emotional build to a place where the team realizes she's going to sacrifice her own life willingly to save someone else). Given what they've been through, her truly dying would have a justifiably larger, more devastating effect on the team. However, what we, as an audience, would be left with would probably be less the memory of her death than a reminder that they rehashed an idea from a previous season.

"We have to write off Prentiss? Ehh... Just kill her again."

That said, I'd take a real and binding death over the idea that Prentiss has one too many "bad days," and suddenly psychs out of the job. Hotch realizing that Prentiss hasn't fully processed her ordeal via her evals seemed a great way to give her character some more meat at the time, but now I'm worried they'll use it as an excuse to have her walk away from the job altogether. I loathe the idea of her becoming that fragile. However, if they could make it less about Doyle, specifically, and more about realizing she's had enough of the darkness (a little like Gideon, only less cray), I could maybe get behind that. I just don't think that's her character, though. She loves what she does.

I'm also not keen on Prentiss bowing out of her position to strike up a romance with Hotch (or anyone, for that matter). While I ship H/P hard, there is no real satisfactory way to ease them into canon under any condition, especially not with her leaving. Trying to handle that mess off-screen would be lazy and unfair to the partner left in the BAU.

And, after the fiasco with Doyle, I'm not sure she'd want to work with Interpol again, either. That is, I doubt she'd ever agree to work as an undercover agent again. So, okay, Interpol would be fine, if she were an operative functioning as more of a liaison. Use that methodical intellect, those language skills, that profiling expertise on an overt international stage. I'm just not sure there's a way it could be done that wouldn't make it appear as though Prentiss was abandoning the team (her family) again, and this time of her own free will. Still, I think I'd prefer this over any other options, because Prentiss is really too BAMF not to be out there somewhere taking down bad guys.

All in all, it's a tricky situation, and I'm sure whatever ends up happening is not going to please everyone. I'm not going to be pleased, because Prentiss is my favorite character (nothing at all against Paget Brewster -- don't blame her a bit for taking off, and wish her the best; I'll follow her to whatever new project she signs on with). I guess I'll reserve judgment until it happens.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

I'm a major Gideon fan (he is my favourite), so I say this with love and concern, but um:

(a little like Gideon, only less cray)

Oh boy, maybe you should have used, a little like Dave Rossi, who took an early retirement? Cause my impression of Gideon was that he waited until he went cray before he left, and I have the impression that he's just going to keep on driving and never stop, until something like this:

Our Father's Dust (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5497447/1/Our_Fathers_Dust) » by G. R. Jensen reviews
Mourning is never linear. Gideon's death, viewed through a series of drabbles. Everyone features.

[citjara.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this wonderful post. You touched upon many things I think and feel. Certainly we can't do the death, it'd be all like "Been there, done that!"

[dhae_knight_1]

I agree. I want her to leave because it's her choice to do something different. Not because she's fed up with the BAU, but because she finds something she'd rather do. At this point, that could be knitting, for all I care. And it can be made believable because she's been through trauma and that kind of thing can really make a person revise their priorities in life and what they want to spend their lives doing.

[ansera.livejournal.com]

Honest question, where did these Hotch/Prentiss rumours come from? Did nobody else (spoiler, spoiler) watch the last episode. Hotch/Beth (if I remember her name right) are practically set in stone for a while now. They can't go changing that now, really, without a damned good reason. And with the time constraints, I doubt they could ever make that happen. Plus, intra-team ships make me squick in canon. It's a team - we ship them outside, but on the show, they're a team and that's that for me. So back to the first question, which fool started up with these annoying Hotch/Prentiss rumours?

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

There was an interview with show runner, Erica Messer, in which she basically implied they'd be together if Prentiss were ready.

Here's a discussion of why it was a shitty sound byte (as well as the quote from the interview): http://latxcvi.tumblr.com/post/16412875746/veeharmons-criminalmindsfeed-messer

[kuriadalmatia.livejournal.com]

It's been touched on a few times over the course of six seasons that Prentiss wants kids. There was one ep in which Prentiss wondered aloud what would happen to a girl who was orphaned because of the case and Hotch made some comment about moving on (sorry, 7 AM and my ep knowledge is severely lacking at this hour).

Granted, they did that terrible arc with Morgan and Ellie, so maybe they won't rehash that again.

There's also Declan.

I'm not advocating the "Prentiss gets pregnant and leaves" storyline. Far from it. But it is conceivable within the boundaries of the character that she leaves the BAU to take care of a child or children that she forms a connection.

They can also go for the "still overcompensating" arc as she continues to feel the need to prove herself to the team (but I interpret these actions as also proving to herself that she has value to the team and validating her own abilities as well). Sure, she's agreed to tell Hotch when she's having a bad day and she's done so ...

But there could be an ep where her misjudgement causes "team in peril" or "victim in peril" (yes, I know, another trope) and she decides to walk away. Yes, Elle and Gideon have walked away so it's not new to the series. However, given the pressure they face and the setup so far this season as she recovers, it's actually the one that makes the most sense.

Of course, the writers could do something totally cool and have her promoted (highly doubtful but hey). Katie Coles from S2 had been running the CAC unit for a long time and Hotch hinted that maybe she should step away ... and Coles was former BAU ....

[dhae_knight_1]

I'd like her to leave of her own accord because the trauma she's been through has made her revise her life and life-goals. I don't care if she takes up knitting as a profession, but so far we've seen two meltdowns (Elle and Gideon), one forced transfer (JJ), one promotion (only temporary, and in-team, but still - Morgan), and one mock-death (Prentiss). I desperately want someone to walk away because they realize that the BAU isn't where they want to be at this point in their lives. Not because it breaks them, but because that's sometimes the way life works.

Also, it would kinda nicely parallel the fact that Paget is leaving of her own free will. :-)

[daydreamer1984.livejournal.com]

I must be out of the loop. Another character, possibly one that alread left is leaving?!! This is now getting annoying. Why bring someone back to have them leave again. I'm not really enjoying this season very much and this whole thing is just making me more mad.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

Paget was manipulated into coming back (she said she'd come back if they paid her more for all the trouble they gave he last year; they threatened to sue her if she didn't fulfill the contract that THEY broke in the first place), so now that her contract is up, of course she's leaving. I don't blame her in the least. She obviously loves the cast and crew, but CBS executives have treated her like shit.

[runriggers.livejournal.com]

I think that a logical story line would have her leaving with a form of PTSD, from Doyle, so she leaves to either become an ambassador like her mother, or a private consultant or something like that. Or she leaves to look after Declan. I hope they don't kill her off either

[dysfunkshunell1.livejournal.com]

Moderation is on right now, which is why I can't delete a post I accidentally posted here instead of ssa_gideon (egg on my face, I realise what happened only after I emailed the other mod). If you see it because it wasn't rejected in spite of email to the mod, please ignore it! The MQ is a major fail, I once receive approval for a post I made years ago.

Did you want this post deleted? I didn't receive any email but think this is a pretty good post. You touch on some great points. It's completely your call. :)

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

No, not this one, it's the one that's at ssa_gideon right now - I wanted to to share with fellow gideon fans the interview Mandy recently gave on why he left, and I don't want it in the main comm.