Emily's Exit Story / family break up / the strong woman

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

What do you think they will do / what do you want happen?

I really hope they don't kill her off, I never like character deaths. I'm a comic book fan and my favourite part of fandom is fandom - with the canon as commonly accepted shared fodder. If a character dies, it's a lot harder to write in an appearance for them as something that happened between episodes!

I wondered if I'll be okay with Hotch/Prentiss* if she's no longer a main character - I don't want canon shipping between the main cast because then it will overtake the ensemble show format, but at the same time, I've always loved how Prentiss was her own women, and having her no longer a main character but a main character's girlfriend, be she Hotch's GF or Morgan's GF or Reid's GF (I ship that), that would feel like a lessening.

A lot of people said they would stop watching if Reid leaves, or Hotch leaves, or Rossi, but well, out of everyone, in-universe, Reid and Hotch leaving makes the most sense, and it wouldn't be sad, they could still visit. I thought "True Genius" gave Reid the opening of finding something to do with his Physics degrees, and ha, because we don't have enough gender flip, it'll be cool if he adopts a kid with Emily and HE quits to stay with the kid! Hotch would quit to spend more time with Jack, who had already lost his mother. Rossi solved that case that was haunting him - but I can't see Rossi quitting unless there was someone else to take his place - of taking care of the team, and there isn't anyone right now, who either have a lot on their plate, or is very much a baby (Garcia).

I didn't want it to be a pregnancy, because it is cliche, it is so cliche, but perhaps if they do it, it's balanced out by JJ having a baby and not quitting her job - because quitting a job for your children is a faultless option, for man or woman. I just don't like it when it is often unquestionably expected of women, and when female characters overwhelming portrayed as the ones who have to leave to take care of the kids.

What I want the most: is for Emily to stay. I'll be okay with Hotch or Reid leaving, because they have their reasons. I still love Gideon best, but it was definitely his time to leave. As it was Elle. With Emily, it's just Too Soon. Hotch has Jack. Reid has his physics degrees and a mother in care. JJ has Henry AND a husband with abandonment issues (Will's mother died, and then his father died while working on a case in spite of Will's pleads for him to leave). Emily just doesn't seem to have a good reason to quit, a job that she seem to love kicking ass at. Except - if Interpol wants her back.

* Hotch/Prentiss happy ending (as suggested by some comments on tvline): I'm not a 'die-hard' shipper, to paraphrase Sunfreak, I believe that depending on the circumstances, anyone can love anyone. I could see Hotch/Prentiss, and there are things I do like about it, but it makes me uncomfortable the way Hotch/Reid or Prentiss/Reid does not. Why? Expectations. All three of the female characters in the main cast is strong in their own ways, but ironically, while Emily Prentiss is the most outwardly strong and masculine / unisex woman - she wears pantsuit in black or gray colors while JJ and Garcia often wears neutral toned or colourful skirts. Prentiss speaks in the no-nonsense intonation typically used by men, and 'dyke'* identified women in the queer subculture, while traditionally Most Women end their sentences on a soft tone almost like a question, and she's primary an agent of action.

In spite of her Strong and Masculine narrative (and those two are often stuck together), Prentiss was Vulnerable On The Inside, she's at core less self-assured than JJ. That's okay, hey, that's Hotch post Foyet as well, but while Hotch's Strong on the Outside, Vulnerable on the Inside, is just one of the many many varying portrayal of men available in the media. All too often, women in the media are whittled down to The Girlfriend, or, Ms Independent...who secretly needs a man and is relieved when she finally gets to Settle Down with one, the popularly intended narrative of All About Eve (1950)...though Bette Davis rescued it so that it was more 'she was a long time thespian workaholic who's going to retire and enjoy life' and less 'she finally found her true calling as The Girlfriend as oppose to a career she was merely experimenting with'.

I'm just worried that if they make Hotch and Prentiss canon, instead of 'even the strong are sometimes vulnerable and lean on your partner', it's going to come off as, 'Strong' Woman Prentiss just needs to find a big enough Alpha Male to take charge. ...and while there is nothing individually wrong with that, I've read some stuff like that in the kink meme, pretty much every character. Overwhelmingly, it's the female characters who secretly hate being in charge and just wants to settle down, and goddamn, we need our alternatives for diversity.

...and let me clarify, I'm totally not knocking those who ship Hotch/Prentiss, it just makes me uncomfortable, almost as uncomfortable as The Comedian / Silk Spectre I, and I ship THAT.

ETA:
*'dyke', for the purpose of this article, this term is used by this dyke (me) and queer culture buff in the context of queer coding: a tradition of writing or reading a character as queer through a set of behaviour where they don't actually do anything homosexual - and therefore would have beenagainst the rules of the old Hollywood Code. See The Celluloid Closet, or thebratqueen's three essays: the dead gay stereotype, buffy and gay stereotype, and angel and gay stereotype.
-- me: just last week, in spite of the fact that I have my hair in a ponytail and wasn't even wearing a collared shirt, a woman I was speaking to addressed me as 'sir' because of my mannerism
- Queer Coding: AfterElton: High School Musical 3's Ryan Evans still a coded gay character - Posted by Dennis Ayers, Editor on October 24, 2008
-- Emily's Queer Coding: Oh, I guess in addition to my worries of Strong Woman Needs A Stronger Men if they ship her with the very Alpha Hotch (I know they said they wouldn't, but it was a part of no main cast shipping and Prentiss is leaving), I'm fearing the Cured Lesbian Scenario. Okay, there was Doyle, but that was part of her cover! I read way more into what Emily said to Garcia about the girl on the hill and how precious Garcia is to Emily.
---...and holy Cable and Deadpool! What might have been: The show's executive producer Ed Bernero told the publication, "We don't even know if Prentiss is straight," (Feb 2011): and do I hate CBS with the venom of a thousand brown recluse? Yes I do. I don't care if Paget Brewster decided to renew her contract, this is a decision she made after much dickery on the part of CBS, they fired her, they yanked her back, she asked for an apology and a raise, and they were like lol we'll just sue you, and I believe that they didn't handle contract talks with her in good faith.
-- Additionally: 'Queer Women' works for homosexual and bisexual women, though in some
places, queer is offensive, while in others, 'homosexual' is no longer in use except when discussing haters uproar or anti-bills against 'homosexual acts' or 'homosexual conspiracy'. Dyke =/= queer women and queer women =/= dyke. The 'dyke' identity is not just one of sexual orientation but gender as well. This is a word that is highly dependent on context, 1)if you are not queer, you probably shouldn't use it except someone identifies as such, and to stop when you start criticizing least it becomes used as a derogatory, and 2) while it has gender connotation, it is still a queer word. In entertainment, non-heteronormative is a way to code a character as queer without saying it, due to the aforementioned old Hollywood Code, but In Real Life, non-hteronormative =/= dyke.



crossposted from criminalminds Dreamwidth

Comments

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

Could you please change this sentence: "Prentiss speaks in the no-nonsense 'dyke' intonation (I use it too, apparently Most Women end their sentences on a soft tone almost like a question, while most men (or alpha males) and dykes don't do that), and she's primary an agent of action."

I don't care if you're LGBT or what not, but it's extremely rude to refer to gay women (as a group) as "dykes." The only time "dyke" is an appropriate word is when a gay woman has told you that's how they identify and then it's ONLY appropriate when referring to that one woman.

Not all gay women are okay with reclaiming that word and your usage of it in that sentence is really inappropriate.

[dhae_knight_1]

Not only that, but it bugs me to be thought of as "less feminine" because I don't do what the 'Men are from Mars'-crowd tell me is feminine. Prentiss is no less feminine than JJ, she's just different (very much like Reid is different from Hotch). :-/

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

Ugh, yes, I completely agree with you on this. And the "oh men and gay women are this way" stuff is such a load of BS (highly tied to the sexist and privileged and utterly BS field of evolutionary psychology); it's very tied to the heterosexist notion that masculine women are gay, a notion that's highly tied to the word "dyke," the favored slur for when a woman has too much power or acts too masculine or doesn't dress in a feminine manner or doesn't give a shit what the man in front of her thinks or says

[dhae_knight_1]

*raises hand* That's me, right there. I've lost count of the times I've been told 'you're really more like a guy than a woman, aren't you?'. What? Because women can't like computers (thank you Penelope Garcia!)? Because women can't enjoy fast cars? Because women can't find the thought of needing a man as appalling as a man needing a woman? (Obviously wanting is a whole 'nother ballgame).

I just... gah. It drives me nuts. And the new "gender-research" that "proves" all of these differences and claims they have to do with the division of labor among cavemen? Yeah, I call bullshit on the whole thing. Given that there is scientific evidence that people start treating kids differently based on their gender from infancy. That makes it rather difficult to state anything consistent about the different behaviors of girls and boys even at age 1, you know?

[ansera.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I actually thought that here she (gysh that is) meant a particular portion of the lesbian group who identified as dykes. Although, personally, I do think it's pretty strange word to use in relation to Emily since she never struck me to identify as one (in canon that is, if you're talking about your own fanon, then go ahead).

Although, as a linguist, I'm going to have to correct you in that the assumption on how women speak is just that, an assumption. It's been proven otherwise way too many times but I just don't like how people still believe it to be true, it's perpetuating way too many stereotypes about the different genders.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

It's highly unlikely that they studied just the subset of lesbians who ID as dykes, but if she's got a link to a study to prove me wrong, I'd be happy to see it.

Also thank you for pointing out that the actual sentence has little merit, regardless of the wording - I wanted to, but it was late and my brain wasn't functioning at full capacity.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

You can't just use "gay women" or "lesbians" or "homosexual women," three totally non-offensive words?

You're really going to insist on using "dyke," a slur that most of the community hates?

Really? Really?

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

I've pressed post before I finished my comment, and then your replied before I could edit it, it's below.

Really, most of the community hates it? AfterEllen and my irl community in Toronto disagree. I really like the word dyke, it's less clinical than lesbian - and lesbian strictly means a woman who likes woman, nothing more, nothing less.

ETA: like, words change depending on who's using it, and since crap like Prop 8, the word lesbian is actually worse for me than slangs like dyke, because lesbian and homosexuals is what the Prop 8 official people use, and they say it like we are a diagnosed disease.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

Compromise? Use queer women then?

That's at least far less offensive and acceptable than "dykes."

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

The problem with the use of queer woman here, is that Emily doesn't speak like 'queer women' which comes in all shapes and colours, and Emily is queer coded as a 'dyke', a woman who does not identify as a man, but nor is she heteronormative. Srsly, read thebratqeeun's essays (you might want to start with the generic Dead and Gay stereotypes), last I check, she's a bisexual queer identified queer culture buff. It was from her essays that I learned this: America's Hollywood had a code that outright banned the depiction of homosexuality, this means that, queers in the cinema could only be included / recognized through coded behaviours.


...and while that code is not officially in use, well, Criminal Minds have a huge main cast - and yet none of them are queer and out! So for now, I'm just going to take Emily Prentiss's dyke coding and read her as yep, she is, they just aren't allowed to say it, but look, I'm represented on screen!.


...and regarding semantics of which is more offensive (I know homosexual is official, but well, it makes me feel like a disease), if we are both members of the queer community but we disagree on words that should represent us, than well, we might just have to agree to disagree.


Like, I took an aboriginal studies class once, and what I was surprised to learn was, many people of the First Nation prefer 'Indian (http://www.anishinabek.ca/first-nations.asp)' over 'aboriginal', because they grew up Indian, 'Indian Status'(still the official term) is what they fought to retain (apparently a while ago, women lose their status when they marry men of non-Indian-status, and the gov schemed to strip them of IS or have them give it up since IS is like the deeds to the land that was leased/stolen from them), and they resent that the change to the term aboriginal was top-down from the gov again.

...even though, outside the first nation communities and allies, in the general public, aboriginal is the socially corrected term while Indian tends to be used as a slur in the context of Mike Harris's "Get those fucking indian's out of my park" that ended in murder by cops. Such is the disconnect with semantics.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

Oops, I mean huge main cast of CHARACTERS! I know Kirsten is out and it's awesome.

If you are queer and identified as something else, then I'm sorry that I have offended you, but you identify as what you identify as, and I identify as dyke, and it is important me that I could identify as such, AND that I could use it because of this:
http://criminalxminds.livejournal.com/1848463.html?thread=15407759#t15407759

When other terms don't include me, I need one that does and to seek same. I respect that you identify as someone else, and could you respect that I identify myself as dyke? My use of dyke in regards to Emily here is in the context of queer coding: in spite of more stars being out now, we don't get enough characters that are queer, and of the ones that are queer and out, very little are dykes like me, so dyke coded characters are very important to me even if they are not out, even if they are different to other fans. Until confirmed or denied, we all chose to read a character differently, often in ways that we personally identify with. I wanted to be James Bond when I was a little girl, I pick male parts in drama class 99& of the time, I typically think and act in a ways that is typically identified as within a 'male narrative', and I'm so happy to see someone like me on screen, even though Emily is so much more awesome than me because she actually is James Bond whereas I probably would crack.

[dhae_knight_1]

God, yes, this. This is the kind of thinking that has had people thinking I'm a lesbian. I don't know what I am, sexual preference-wise, but God damnit! Would it hurt to accept me as-is without needing to slap a label on me and stick me in a freaking neat box?

[ansera.livejournal.com]

I'm just butting in here to question, why would you find 'lesbian' worse in any sense than dyke? I mean, coming from Singapore, I've still got a 2 year jail ban on homosexuality so clearly we're starting from different places. But, understanding that Prop 8 people are bound to use these words on the offensive, make it something bad and ugly, isn't it up to us to continue using it and prove to them that it is in fact anything but wrong? Not so much reclaiming the word but refusing to let them taint it with their rubbish, as they would every word that was related to any sort of queer issue.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

A matter of context.

From my memory, what I heard and what was said to me

"What are you, some kind of lesbian?"
- and variants, but in general, the phobes I've encountered, the phobes that most of us are likely to run into*, are not the Fred Phelps screaming fags type, they'll sound polite, they'll think of themselves as law-abiding citizens, and they probably are, but well, this. I know this man who said 'homosexuals belong in jail' even though I think he knew or ought to know, that I was queer. These soulless in suits who would causally condone the poor starving or a woman beaten in the subway for swearing or someone fired for being queer BUT repeatedly asserts that swearing and keeping a night schedule debases one's character? They are not going to use slangs like dykes or fags or lesbos. They are going to stick to clinical terms like homosexuals, or lesbians, and sometimes gay, but mostly homosexuals to them = gays and lesbians are 'those women'.

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If I must identify, I identify as dyke, two-spirited, and genderqueer / others. I have both sexual and romantic feelings for men and women, but they are very different. I don't identify as lesbian though I was questioning at one point (I think I had a crush on a boy and a girl at the same time, but while the girl makes me feel warm and shaky when she was in the same room as me, I don't feel that with the boy, I wanted to sleep with him but I wasn't feeling swept off my feet). I'm not comfortable identifying as bisexual because it sounds clinical and there are so many negative connotation, from outside and inside the queer community, and I don't feel that term includes 'regardless of any sex or gender', even though in General Public, if I'm not in a homophobic place, I would id as bisexual because pansexual or sentient-sexual or sapient-sexual takes too much explaining.


*or maybe it's just me, I grew up in a setting like that. No slurs, no screaming, respectable citizens don't do that, but I grew up with people who can say the 'homosexual' and make it sound like 'mentally ill child molesters', who can say 'lesbian' and it sound like 'confused women looking for a man' or 'mentally sick homewreckers'. I really really prefer dyke. There is so much systematic homophobia condoned and persisted beneath a veneer of clinical politeness, of concern trolling, I just want to scream "I'm a fucking dyke and there is nothing you can do to change me because there is nothing wrong with that!".

Dyke to me is important both as a part of my identity, and as subculture, cause the things many women do to bond, make up and shoes, it just don't apply to me. This is problematic because I do pink collar jobs, I went to this meet and greet thing for fellow women working in pink-collar, and everyone identified with each other as fellow women, but their definition of women didn't include me ya know what I mean? They were talking about husbands and boyfriends and having a fundraiser with doing each other's make-up, all very positive things, but I'm not there. I was like, the Unwoman there, and I think dyke > not a woman.

The existence of 'dyke' is important to me, because when popular use of 'woman' often exclude who I am and what I need, than I need some other group identity to help seek out what I do share with and need.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

I know that, but when popularly, as demonstrated in the meet and greet example, people don't, I need my safe space, and the dyke identity helps me find it.

Like, a fair world, that I hope we are reaching for, a women's meet and greet should mean just that, it should be inclusive of ALL women, but it isn't. Just like how geek should include all geeks, but automatically means geek(boys who are straight).


One of the things I am, is a feminist, and there are many feminists who are also humanists, I hope I am, I aim to be friendly to women and trans and to be race-aware. ...but well, there are also feminists who are not cool with other parts of me, who get comfortable when they found out I also like women (am I hitting on them), who get uncomfortable because I don't like wearing heels or make-up (do I have a problem with being a woman?). When I go to a woman's meet and greet, such are the questions hanging over me.

...but when I go to dyke marches, I know it's cool...though there is still BS like, when I told someone my family is homophobic, a white queer women proceed to understandingly tell me, and oh she means well, that Chinese culture can be hard like that - even though my story came right after a white queer woman told of getting kicked out of her home.

...but other than that bad experience, dyke is an important sub-group for me, and again, 'queer women' doesn't do because queer women covers all women who are lesbians, bisexual, or even genderqueer. Queer Women cannot be a substitute for Dyke the way Europe cannot be a substitute for a country in it.

We might have to agree to disagree I guess, I don't know where you are, but I'm Toronto, and we have this:

http://www.pridetoronto.com/festival/parade-marches/dyke-march

On the rare occasion when someone shout dyke at me (pretty much never, people just use lesbian), I can say, so what?

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

I do identified as dyke, though recently I've shifted more towards gender queer but feminine behaviour always felt a bit like theatre to me.

...but I've altered it to this:
Prentiss speaks in the no-nonsense intonation typically used by men, and 'dyke' identified women in the queer subculture, while traditionally Most Women end their sentences on a soft tone almost like a question, and she's primary an agent of action.

I read the 'dyke' speech difference in some queer magazine years ago, it was either a study on difference in speech patterns considering subcultures, or difference in identities and shaerd behaviour between the het and queer community - and due to segregation (there was a time when Toronto's queer village wasn't just a tourist spot), there was a lot of differences in daily slang and coded(?) behaviour, that serves both to indicate how you identify yourself and sometimes what you like.

...but it's probably becoming outdated now that merely wearing pants doesn't make you lesbian anymore. I read another recent article that a lot of women are suffering from Bogart-Bacall syndrome from intentionally deepening their voices because deep voice = authority.

Still, a character like Emily is rare, and the way she's written as a woman can be seen as being 'queer coded' (characters that, since we really don't have a lot of queer and out characters, the queer community embrace as One of Us One of Us). thebratqueen does a much better job than me explaining queer coding in Buffy and Gay Stereotypes (http://thebratqueen.livejournal.com/187497.html) and Angel and Gay Stereotypes (http://thebratqueen.livejournal.com/195009.html).


...and I'm a queer women who is okay with that word because it was my identity for a long time, and still is, on the masculine side of genderqueer.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

It doesn't matter that YOU are okay with the word because you're NOT. REFERRING. TO. YOURSELF. You are referring to an entire group of people, most of whom are not okay with that word.

[gsyh.livejournal.com]

...and I just included an example of a group of people most of whom have embraced that term, where is YOUR group?

...and I explained why dyke > lesbian and homosexual too, because dyke and queer is OUR term now, where as, geez, a googling of homosexual:

http://www.google.ca/search?ix=seb&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=homosexual#hl=en&tbm=nws&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22*+homosexual+*%22&pbx=1&oq=%22*+homosexual+*%22&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=3&gs_upl=356l15124l7l15491l33l23l8l0l0l2l1273l8120l0.9.0.4.0.3.3.1l29l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=3591fb4a2fbf36a&ix=seb&biw=1366&bih=643

Homosexual Gang Terrorizing Matero Residents‎
Lusaka Times - 12 hours ago
A group of homosexuals is said to be on rampage in Lusaka's Chingwere and Matero townships abusing some unsuspecting residents. The group is also reported ...
Uganda bill calling for death penalty for 'homosexual acts ...‎
National Post (blog) - 8 Feb 2012
It would introduce the death sentence for anyone caught engaging in homosexual acts for the second time, as well as for gay sex where one partner is a minor ...


...see the quotes on 'homosexual acts'? That's the term the bill uses.

There are many many anti-gay bills out there, but within the bill, they are not going to use gay or dyke or queer (well, they probably won't use gay), this is why they use homosexual.




I have never never ever, heard a member of my community introduce themselves as homosexual, that term comes up in discussion of anti-gay bills.

[freakingdork.livejournal.com]

I don't even know why I argue with you; it's like talking with a brick wall.

Nevermind the fact that the research (poor and non-scientific as it may be) that you're referencing in the sentence? Would have used "gay women" or "homosexual women" or "lesbians." Because it would not have included bisexual or pansexual people (and it's very highly unlikely that it used trans people), thus there's no worry that "gay" or "homosexual" or "lesbian" is limiting. Because when scientists and anthropologists study things like this? They do reduce it down to straight and gay and that's all. It's black and white, which is wrong when it comes to the real world, but hey, that's what it is.