I don't think this bodes well for Sean

[a_blackpanther]

This is the discussion post for Episode 8x23 and 8xx24 - "Brothers Hotchner" and "the Replicator". Watch out for SPOILERS in the comments.

Comments

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

I really wanted to see more affection between Hotch and his brother. The last time he saw Sean, he was much happier and more relaxed.

Garcia's line about the time-travelling police box was the best line she's ever had in the entire series.

Am I the only person who didn't know (or had forgotten) that Rossi and Strauss were involved? By the way, why does Rossi have his own office separate from the rest of the team?

One of the best things about this episode was how much time Hotch was in casual clothes. He looks damn good in casual clothes.

[lizzielizzie.livejournal.com]

The hints they gave for Rossi and Strauss could have pointed to a casual sex thing, or a relationship. It was hard for me to tell.

[rainbow-goddess.livejournal.com]

Hotch said that they had been "together" for the past year, so I take it to mean they had some form of relationship.

[lizzielizzie.livejournal.com]

Yes, he did...I think he meant an actual relationship, rather than random booty calls. :-) The scene I was thinking of was the one where Garcia and Reid are going to some geek convention and they run into Rossi as he is coming out of the hotel to head home. Shortly thereafter, they spot Strauss exiting the same hotel. That scene doesn't make it clear what sort of relationship they have. ;-)

[dreamabella.livejournal.com]

I clapped and cheered when Garcia mentioned Doctor Who.

[dreamabella.livejournal.com]

And yeah, I had no clue that Rossi and Strauss were involved. Any idea of which episode that was first mentioned in?

[luscious-words.livejournal.com]

Season 7 finale is the first time I recall a hint of Rossi/Strauss - Garcia and Reid are at the con and run into Rossi, then after he gets into his car, they see Strauss coming out of the same hotel.

[sg-wonderland.livejournal.com]

That would be season seven's finale 'Hit'. Garcia and Reid are outside a Dr. Who convention, dressed appropriately, when they spy Strauss and Rossi exiting the hotel separately. Then they encounter Kevin and his new squeeze and decide to leave, as their day probably isn't going to improve. (And it was absolutely adorable that Reid confessed he'd knitted his own Dr. scarf....)

[full-metal-ox.livejournal.com]

A singularly awkward detail was that Garcia and Kevin were both costumed as Eleven (and Kevin's date as Amy Pond.)

[diemme.livejournal.com]

He took over Gideon's old office. There's a scene in one episode (can't recall which atm) where he replaces Gideon's nameplate with his own. I'd guess it's because of his seniority. It would probably be strange to have an agent of 30 plus years experience in the bullpen with the youngsters of 10 to 15 years.

[vonnadarling.livejournal.com]

I actually really liked these two episodes.

Except when Rossi turned on Morgan, it was just so random. I understand he was drugged but...
I always love seeing Garcia and Kevin work together as well.


Can't wait for next season!

[a_blackpanther]

It wasn't random - the letter Rossi received said Morgan's fingerprints were in Strauss' room.

[mycha-kk.livejournal.com]

That was a very good finale. I enjoyed it much. Although, I am very disappointed Strauss did end up dead. She was an obvious choice, but still, I wish they didn't kill her off (and not because of Rossi's angst, I actually liked her, especially recently). On the other hand, next season we may get to see how the team deals with a new boss. Could it be that one of the team will get promoted? Plot-wise - killing Strauss off brings a lot of possible scenarios for next season.

I liked the Replicator case - finally it got resolved, although i liked the Brother Hotchner part better (and I'm not that big Hotch fan in the first place...). What I liked about the Replicator case was that it kinda tied all nicely. He was a psycho that snapped when Strauss duped him and Blake. He was patient and plotted revenge. He targeted the whole team because Strauss (his real target) was the boss/face. Blake joining the team was the trigger. The profile makes sense. And Rossi delivery of "Zugzwang" at the end was very satisfying. So to sum up, I'm satisfied with the finale. However, even though it was a season long unsub, he isn't going to be standing out as a 'top' killer for me, not like the Boston Ripper or Frank (from season 1/2) or even Ian Doyle. I kinda feel that killing him off in the finale seems ...anticlimatic in the end, maybe because it was a season long unsub, and maybe because the ending (the team getting out) was done so quickly...

What do you guys think about another 'loved' one of the team member being killed off? Hotchner lost his wife (twice: divorce and her death), Reid lost Meave, Rossi lost his first wife and now Strauss. I'm actually happy Beth and Will and even Kevin are still breathing... Sometimes it seems as if the team could not be happy...

[ruralstar.livejournal.com]

I'm not so sure that this type of work lends itself to happiness. Even Garcia struggles and she's rarely on the front lines. The kinds of hours they work and what they see would take a toll on relationships. Never mind the unstable elements of society like Doyle and Foyet (loved how that was brought up) that this group would encounter daily. And I do believe that certain kinds of people are drawn to work like this because they have a hard time forming stable partnerships or recognizing happiness even when it's staring them right in the face. Like Rossi and Carolyn. Staying detached to some degree is necessary or you will get burned out, like Gideon.

It's sad that they lose so many people and so much of their lives, but I find it fairly plausible.

[diemme.livejournal.com]

I'm not so sure that this type of work lends itself to happiness.

I agree, there's probably a sense of resolve that comes from doing what is right and necessary but that's not the same as happiness.

[wagrobanite.livejournal.com]

Erica mentioned something in a recent article (i'd have to go actually find it) that she (or the network, don't remember which) didn't want a cliffhanger at the very end so that's why they did it the way they did but they did leave the possibility open that he (the replicator) still figured out a way to get out and could possibly be alive.

[tryxkittie.livejournal.com]

What do you guys think about another 'loved' one of the team member being killed off? Hotchner lost his wife (twice: divorce and her death), Reid lost Meave, Rossi lost his first wife and now Strauss. I'm actually happy Beth and Will and even Kevin are still breathing... Sometimes it seems as if the team could not be happy...

This series has a big problem with fridge-ing women.

[ruralstar.livejournal.com]

I enjoyed the finale very much. I'm not overly attached to the fraternal relationship between Aaron and Sean for many reasons. I found Aaron's behavior plausible. He's had to move on and let some of his feelings go regarding Sean. Family, as stated at the end of the finale, is about people and not necessarily blood. I really enjoyed watching Beth and Aaron and Jack. There is a new family forming there and hopefully it will survive.

Never warmed to Strauss and I saw zero indication of their so called relationship the entire year. I liked watching JM portray Rossi's angst over her death. The writer's really fell down in not keeping the idea of a relationship alive and left it to Montagen to make it real, which he did IMO. It was a nice touch that Aaron was there for her in the end since he was so instrumental in getting her help in the first place for her addiction.

My only memories of Mark Hamil are as Luke Skywalker. I ADORED him as The Replicator. Sooo creepy. I agree with others that his character is not the most notorious of the series. For me Foyet takes that honor for the swath of terror he cut through the team. However, I still enjoyed the idea immensely and I loved that Hamil was cast against type to play him. Nice to see an actual connection to Blake. Not a positive connection but at least her character feels a bit more real to me after the finale. I was surprised that The Replicator was killed at the end of the finale. It was anticlimactic as someone stated above. I'm wondering if tptb had any sense that this could have been a series finale. it was wrapped up very neatly and that wonderful scene about family at the end would have been a fitting final moment. I'm glad there is a season 9 to come but I could have lived with this kind of ending because ultimately it was about the living and not the dead. Very appropriate.

[techbychance.livejournal.com]

it was wrapped up very neatly and that wonderful scene about family at the end would have been a fitting final moment. I'm glad there is a season 9 to come but I could have lived with this kind of ending because ultimately it was about the living and not the dead. Very appropriate.

Amen to that. I've never been a fan of cliffhanger season finales because they always feel like a letdown for me. It's bad enough over a summer break but ten times worse if a series doesn't get picked up for a new season. I love how they wrapped up both S7 and S8 neatly with a family celecration at Rossi's place. I'd love them to make this a tradition to have every season end in that way.

[full-metal-ox.livejournal.com]

My only memories of Mark Hamil are as Luke Skywalker. I ADORED him as The Replicator. Sooo creepy.

These days, Hamill predominantly plays creepy villains--although you may not have recognized him because most of his work for the past couple decades has been in animation and video-game voice-acting; in that capacity, his name has become synonymous with a second iconic role. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCTFih-VelI)

[ruralstar.livejournal.com]

Oh wow! I certainly would not have recognized Mark Hamil as the voice of the joker. Not a fan of the Batman mythos in any way really. Thanks for the clip!

[wagrobanite.livejournal.com]

I was very happy it ended this way... no cliffhanger.. knew it was either Strauss or Kevin that was going to die. Would have preferred Kevin (I just don't like him).

As to why people forget Rossi and Strauss were in a relationship, it's because it wasn't a kosher relationship so they had to keep it on the low.

LOVED seeing Eric Johnson back :) Been a huge fan of his for a long time (though I wish he would have shaved.. hate the beard. hate it in Rookie Blue, hate it here). I was kind of annoyed that they made Aaron annoyed that Sean didn't come back for Haley's funeral... They tried to get Eric but he couldn't due to filming of RB... oh well glad to see him back :)

[techbychance.livejournal.com]

While I was somewhat surprised by the tension between the Hotchner brothers I thought that it was a good way to tie up loose ends and have some kind of continuity because it was never explained in-series why Sean wasn’t there at Haley’s funeral. All it would have taken back then was a throwaway line like “too bad Sean couldn’t come because of [reason X]” but they didn’t consider it then, so it made sense to me how they explained it in hindsight. And I have to admit that I very much enjoyed how the two of them butted heads.

[techbychance.livejournal.com]

This might not have been the most spectacular finale we’ve ever seen but I enjoyed it because they tied up ends nicely, actually bothered with continuity, had nice emotional scenes and the family theme written all over it. I love that they didn’t leave us with a cliffhanger.

I’m not sure whether I like the pillow talk between Hotch and Beth - on the one hand it was funny and it’s always a treat to see a happy and relaxed Hotch but on the other hand it kind of felt out of place to me. Also, Jack’s starting to ping me like a future psychopath, I sure hope he doesn’t grow up to be one of the BAU’s future “clients”.

The amount of tension between the Hotchner brothers surprised me but I have to admit I enjoyed their quibbling and I like how they referenced back to Sean‘s absence from Haley‘s funeral. Not sure if I’m happy with yet another ex-addict in the extended family (Reid, Strauss, now Sean) - they could have come up with something different but at least it fit in with the storyline. Same goes for yet another death of a spouse (Haley, Rossi’s ex-wife, Maeve, now Strauss) but it was done well imho - sad and touching with a side of Rossi-angst, but not overly dramatic.

On a side note I think Brothers Hotchner should be renamed into the episode with the ugly wallpapers. If that’s a new interior trend I’m really glad that I’ve missed it so far.

Rossi’s line that he liked JJ better when she wasn’t a profiler was funny because it played with an opinion voiced by so many fans about JJ. I liked this little in-joke much better than the side blow to Prentiss being in the right place - far away from Washington, though I do appreciate the reference. Another cookie was one that I always enjoy - Agent Anderson, and even with a few lines of dialog.

The Replicator case was interesting, especially that they made him an insider from the FBI with a long history. That made sense and explained a lot. Also, he was kind of the anti-Reid, a genius gone unsub. There were several parallels between the Replicator and Reid and I don’t think they are coincidence but rather intentional.

I especially enjoyed the manipulation of the helicopter and dazed Hotch and Reid. Also, Blake in chains? Mmmhhhh. Too bad we don’t have a CM kink meme anymore… Drugged Rossi seemed a bit strange to me but at least they didn’t forget the glass with Morgan’s prints the Replicator had taken and I liked the scene where the paramedics took away a sedated Dave.

Another highlight was the Hotchalance the senator received and while I’m not the biggest fan of Kevin, I enjoy him and Garcia teaming up their computer magic. I just wish that Garcia would learn to get more to the point and focus on the essential facts, especially in high stress situations. The scene with her via cam and JJ and Blake was funny, though.

Something else I liked was how the funeral was done, that they showed just how people dissolved afterwards but spared us the usual part with honors, speeches, the flag, salutes and everything but went straight to the private funeral feast at Rossi’s place. I liked his toast to family and I think they should make it a tradition to end each season with a little celebration at Rossi’s place, this worked very well for me the last two times.

[hotaruofkonoha.livejournal.com]

I think Jack's problem is, well, that kid isn't the best child actor. I've noticed this recently in the episodes he's been in.

[eiko82.livejournal.com]

Really enjoyed the finale. The overdose case in NY was freaky with how the people died. I thought the case did wrap up a bit too fast and neatly with the dad being the one dosing people. I don't really get why he would kill innocent people like that when he was really trying to target the club owner for supplying his daughter with a fatal overdose of ecstasy.

Then again, the finale was always gonna be about the Replicator. I'll admit that hearing all the rumors about the unsub being Mark Hamil beforehand kinda ruined the surprise for me. I felt so bad for Strauss being forced to drink and then being tormented by the Replicator whilst she was dying. Poor Strauss. I'll miss her. The rest of the case was cool but for some reason, it failed to really put me on the edge of my seat. Loved that little moment where Rossi managed to open the door with Strauss' coin and basically gave the Replicator a big 'f*ck you' look.

[lady-ami.livejournal.com]

Was I the only one thinking..."Why didn't Strauss put the lock on her hotel room door?" Seriously you shut and than you lock that door. Than again had she done that he would have already been in the room waiting.

It was an ok season finale. I don't know this whole season for me as been kind of whatever after season's 7 awesomeness. After how the Mauve storyline ended I just kind of walked away from this season and have caught ep's here and there. I've loved all the other season and have watched them repeatedly, but I don't think I've rewatched a single ep from this season and really have no interest in doing so. Hoping season 9 is much better.

[annievh.livejournal.com]

Could someone explain to me why Sean was arrested (or sort of)? I did not understand it very well. Was it because he was dealing too or because he nicked the wine?

[piperwest12.livejournal.com]

From the way I understood it, he is the one who crashed his truck into tht guy and poured the tainted wine into his throat.

[annievh.livejournal.com]

Hmm, I don't think so. I think this was the Unsub. Sean and Hotch both said Sean didn't kill him.
But I'll double check.

[ndmzero.livejournal.com]

Uh, no, I don't think that's it (the crash - they identified someone else as responsible for that)-- Sean had stolen the case of poisoned wine that was missing and sold it to a wine dealer. The people who bought the wine from that store (at least the couple at dinner) died.

While Sean didn't know the wine was poisoned, his actions resulted in the death of those (and maybe other - I sort of lost track) people. He was the one the owner mentioned who came back and bought back the remaining bottles from the store keeper.

He will almost certainly be charged - possibly with felony murder (not sure of required elements) but at a minimum with manslaughter. He had to be arrested, but they're unlikely to throw the book at him.

[annievh.livejournal.com]

Interesting. Does that mean he will do jail time?

[ndmzero.livejournal.com]

Re "will Sean do time" - probably, at least some. [The police didn't even cuff him as he got into the cop car, which I'm pretty sure is a breach of their rules.] He called law enforcement himself, and he eventually gave them enough information to solve the case and cooperated, but a lot of people died and it might be possible for a prosecutor to convince a jury that Sean was criminally negligent in not acting sooner or not providing complete information right away. I would guess that Sean will have a good attorney and will work out a deal. Given the tragedies' high profiles, I think he would plead guilty to a lesser charge and not face a jury. He would also be required to testify (if anyone higher up in the chain is still alive.) But I can't imagine him not doing some time. (Take all this with a grain of salt -- I have never practiced criminal law. So this is my opinion, fwiw)

[annievh.livejournal.com]

Thnak you very much for the clarification. It would suck if this is the last we heard from Sean. I hope he works out a deal and walks free so, like, Sean Mcguire comes back in future episodes to break free from jail and stalk him, providing plot to a new Hotch episode.

also because Sean/Reid is my new OTP but yeah

[bittereternity.livejournal.com]

Ooh, Sean/Reid sounds delicious!

*is totally not picturing Hotch catching them in bed and joining in the fun*

[eiko82.livejournal.com]

That's correct - He stole and sold the case with the 3 poisoned wine bottles, which resulted in the deaths of the family and the black guy.

[x-steffi-x.livejournal.com]

I really wanted Kevin or Gideon to be the replicator. I knew it was unlikely but that would have made amazing tv.